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Proportional weapons production

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Krom

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Knights Province Developer

Posts: 3280

Joined: 09 May 2006, 22:00

KaM Skill Level: Fair

Location: Russia

Post 17 Mar 2013, 18:17

Re: Proportional weapons production

@Pawel: When seeing this line "50% 0 11" I have no idea what it could mean, is it a order 50% made or ...

Placing a star is better because it says "I want this, top priority plz". Wheres changing to % mode does not explains how % are calculated, what does 50% means next to 0 and 11. I know it could be interpreted as make axes 50% (of the time? or how?) and other 50% make pikes or bows (what if pikes are 0, only bows?). Sorry, but I find this much too confusing for an orders UI.
Knights Province at: http://www.knightsprovince.com
KaM Remake at: http://www.kamremake.com
Original MBWR/WR2/AFC/FVR tools at: http://krom.reveur.de
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pawel95

Castle Guard Swordsman

Posts: 1912

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Location: "Pawel95" on Youtube.com

Post 17 Mar 2013, 19:29

Re: Proportional weapons production

@Pawel: When seeing this line "50% 0 11" I have no idea what it could mean, is it a order 50% made or ...

Placing a star is better because it says "I want this, top priority plz". Wheres changing to % mode does not explains how % are calculated, what does 50% means next to 0 and 11. I know it could be interpreted as make axes 50% (of the time? or how?) and other 50% make pikes or bows (what if pikes are 0, only bows?). Sorry, but I find this much too confusing for an orders UI.

Well 50% 0% and 11% is a really bad example, but I mean clicking on "%" changes the values {50;0;11} to:

"82%" "0%" and "18%" for example :D So the player could know that the weaponmaker will make wepons and with 82% it will be an axe for example. I know that the player won´t know the detailed system,that´s clear. However they would know, what has changed in general(i think/hope)


pawel95
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H.A.H.

Lance Carrier

Posts: 69

Joined: 26 Dec 2012, 23:51

Location: The Netherlands

Post 17 Mar 2013, 19:56

Re: Proportional weapons production

@Pawel: When seeing this line "50% 0 11" I have no idea what it could mean, is it a order 50% made or ...

Placing a star is better because it says "I want this, top priority plz". Wheres changing to % mode does not explains how % are calculated, what does 50% means next to 0 and 11. I know it could be interpreted as make axes 50% (of the time? or how?) and other 50% make pikes or bows (what if pikes are 0, only bows?). Sorry, but I find this much too confusing for an orders UI.
But a star is also confusing as a player does not know what a top-priority means: does it mean that all those items will be made first, and then the rest of the items? Or are those items made more often. I think we should not be worried about this at all, as players can learn.

If the interface is responsive, it means that a player knows that he can not produce more than 100% in total. As you correctly interpeted that 50% of the time will be spent making weapons, this idea can be verified by any player by just producing one job at 50% and one other job in absolute amounts. He sees that the first thing the craftsman does is to produce an axe, and after the axe produce the other weapon: validating the initial suspicion.

Pawel makes a valid point, if mixing percentages and absolute values is too complicated, a click could also switch fully to proportional production. Though I think that mixing them provides much more flexibility and allows any player to have full control over the craftsman. Even though it costs a little bit of effort for the player to understand it.

It is the same as the distribution tab. The first time a player sees the distribution tab, he mightn't know what it does or does not. But after experimentation (e.g. setting some to 0), he will quickly understand the way it works. We should also assume this is the case for any change in UI or gameplay in general.

(Though, more general: a better solution is, ofcourse, better. But as far haven't I seen any, so I'd want to kickstart the discussion by providing atleast some prototype or mockup.)
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Krom

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Knights Province Developer

Posts: 3280

Joined: 09 May 2006, 22:00

KaM Skill Level: Fair

Location: Russia

Post 18 Mar 2013, 05:37

Re: Proportional weapons production

@HAH: That is a bad approach if the player needs to watch workshop production for a time it takes to make 2-4 weapons to get the idea we have put into these %s. Another weak idea you mention from original KAM this time - distribution ratios, I (and many others) thought that was ratio distribution for 12 years! Where's in fact that was max wares per house (imagine time it takes to figure out from speculation if wares are often en-route and actual house supply is 1 less). I think you overestimate players experimentation and understanding, players have much more interesting things in life, that to decrypt how exactly KaM works. That's why need the simplest and clearest approach, with fewer controls. Player just wants to place an order (in fact KaM asks him to, cos otherwise each house could produce everything itself) and have it done at least partially. Professional management strategies could be possible, but they should not get in a way of simplicity. When you order pizza you order 1 pepperoni and one 1 vegetarian. Pizza-house does not provides services that 1% professionals would ask for (mix slices, put salami on right, and after PT ends start placing olives only in center).

Like you correctly assumed, top priority makes ware to be produced all the time. That could be written in a hint.

Perhaps one checkbox would be simpler in the end - toggle between % and pcs orders everything.
Knights Province at: http://www.knightsprovince.com
KaM Remake at: http://www.kamremake.com
Original MBWR/WR2/AFC/FVR tools at: http://krom.reveur.de
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The Dark Lord

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King Karolus Servant

Posts: 2154

Joined: 29 Aug 2007, 22:00

KaM Skill Level: Veteran

Location: In his dark thunderstormy castle

Post 18 Mar 2013, 10:35

Re: Proportional weapons production

Funny how a checkbox wasn't an option in the first place (bus, aeroplane), but now it is. :P I agree though, still think a checkbox would be best.
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Krom

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Knights Province Developer

Posts: 3280

Joined: 09 May 2006, 22:00

KaM Skill Level: Fair

Location: Russia

Post 18 Mar 2013, 12:10

Re: Proportional weapons production

@TDL: Good to see the discussion matters :)
Knights Province at: http://www.knightsprovince.com
KaM Remake at: http://www.kamremake.com
Original MBWR/WR2/AFC/FVR tools at: http://krom.reveur.de

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