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Planned market changes

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The Dark Lord

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Post 30 Dec 2012, 23:31

Re: Planned market changes

I wouldn't really mind because I never have a market before pt ends, but I don't really like the idea of restricting people from building certain buildings.
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Ben

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Post 25 Feb 2013, 20:11

Re: Planned market changes

Forgive me for kicking this topic, but I read somewhere on the forum that the market values will be changed so that trading will be harder, again. (i.e., it is going to be different from the balance testing release). Is this true?
#thunderposting #greentornado
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Lewin

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Post 01 Mar 2013, 03:55

Re: Planned market changes

Ben wrote:Forgive me for kicking this topic, but I read somewhere on the forum that the market values will be changed so that trading will be harder, again. (i.e., it is going to be different from the balance testing release). Is this true?

It's been increased slightly to 2.2 (was 2.0 in r4297, and 2.5 in r4179). We can always change it back during RC testing if market strategies become unusable. To be honest I quite liked the uses of the market that To showed in his most recent video.
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Ben

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Post 01 Mar 2013, 04:51

Re: Planned market changes

Lewin wrote:
Ben wrote:Forgive me for kicking this topic, but I read somewhere on the forum that the market values will be changed so that trading will be harder, again. (i.e., it is going to be different from the balance testing release). Is this true?

It's been increased slightly to 2.2 (was 2.0 in r4297, and 2.5 in r4179). We can always change it back during RC testing if market strategies become unusable. To be honest I quite liked the uses of the market that To showed in his most recent video.


Me, too, Lewin. However, Dicsoupcan and Pizza have come up with an almost game-breaking way of abusing the marketplace. They nearly all of their food for corn, which they use to make early pigs and skins. They then have sausage and leather armor at an incredibly early time. This strategy is excellent for rushing and also doesn't sacrifice much for end-game since sausages are being produced at such an early time. This strategy is nowhere near possible without the marketplace. From what this (me) noob sees, if enough players start using this, everyone will be forced to use it in order to survive.
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Lewin

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Post 01 Mar 2013, 05:34

Re: Planned market changes

All of these rushing strategies that are often called "market abuse" won't work so well with longer peacetime. In the new release maybe people will use a slightly faster game speed and longer peacetime, meaning that rushing won't work so well.
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Ben

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Post 01 Mar 2013, 05:53

Re: Planned market changes

Sounds promising. I'm excited to see how it goes. Perhaps we can release an update to the balance testing to try this (and everything else that has changed), or would that be too much effort for too little gain?
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`Maurice

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Post 01 Mar 2013, 19:01

Re: Planned market changes

Lewin wrote:All of these rushing strategies that are often called "market abuse" won't work so well with longer peacetime. In the new release maybe people will use a slightly faster game speed and longer peacetime, meaning that rushing won't work so well.


Forgive me if this has been posted somewhere already, but when will the new version be released?

On topic:

I'm looking forward to the changes with the market.

I don't mind people using the market, but like Ben said, when people are " forced " to use a specific tactic in order to survive, i find that rather boring.
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dicsoupcan

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Post 01 Mar 2013, 19:14

Re: Planned market changes

Ben wrote:
Lewin wrote:
Ben wrote:Forgive me for kicking this topic, but I read somewhere on the forum that the market values will be changed so that trading will be harder, again. (i.e., it is going to be different from the balance testing release). Is this true?

It's been increased slightly to 2.2 (was 2.0 in r4297, and 2.5 in r4179). We can always change it back during RC testing if market strategies become unusable. To be honest I quite liked the uses of the market that To showed in his most recent video.


Me, too, Lewin. However, Dicsoupcan and Pizza have come up with an almost game-breaking way of abusing the marketplace. They nearly all of their food for corn, which they use to make early pigs and skins. They then have sausage and leather armor at an incredibly early time. This strategy is excellent for rushing and also doesn't sacrifice much for end-game since sausages are being produced at such an early time. This strategy is nowhere near possible without the marketplace. From what this (me) noob sees, if enough players start using this, everyone will be forced to use it in order to survive.


I would like to react on this post for i have done some research thanks to bludmaster who challenged me to do the same thing without market. After doing both builds on the same loc (5 on golden cliffsV.6) i came to the conclusion that the non market way is even stronger then the market way. The only way it can be way stronger is if you can combine both ways somehow. It was really interesting to see this happen, for the market seemed to win untill the great flow of leather came in the non market way.

Offcrouse i try doing both strategies combined, but not today :mrgreen:

cliffs non market.rar


cliffs market.rar
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Lewin

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Post 01 Mar 2013, 22:20

Re: Planned market changes

@`Maurice: We will hopefully be ready to start RC testing in a month or so (there's still stuff that needs cleaning up/finishing)

@dicsoupcan: Interesting, we'll see how it goes with 2.2 but if it kills most market strategies in the RC we can change it again.
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Ben

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Post 12 Mar 2013, 05:06

Re: Planned market changes

From my experience with the r4297 marketplace, I conclude that raising the marketplace values to 2.2 is a mistake, because the marketplace is already weaker than not using the marketplace (for leather strategies, anyway... not too sure about horses). As Dicsoupcan has pointed out, the marketplace is only better for a short time. rushing for extra farms beats the marketplace in the (not so very) long run.

For a while, I figured that market strategies were weaker than non-market strategies, but were, instead, just easier for weaker players (such as myself) to handle. For a few weeks, I tried playing like Pizza and Dicsoupcan: abusing (trying to, anyway) the marketplace. I noticed that my armies were getting better, but recently, I have stopped using the marketplace. When not using the marketplace, I now have larger armies than if I were to use the marketplace, plus a stronger economy (less starvation because I don't sell my food, plus I'm making more of it).

Anyway, this is my prediction. Although raising the marketplace values to 2.2 may be a mistake, it I suppose that it should still be tested. After all, what are the balance testing builds for anyway? ;)

P.S., if the next version allows players to block weapons in the barrack/ take weapons out of the barrack, the marketplace may see a huge amount of use in altegames in order to sell axes and other wooden weapons for gold, so perhaps increasing the values won't totally ruin the building anyway.
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Jeronimo

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Post 12 Mar 2013, 07:07

Re: Planned market changes

I'm also against 2.2 raise. No real need.
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The Dark Lord

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Post 12 Mar 2013, 10:00

Re: Planned market changes

Ben wrote:P.S., if the next version allows players to block weapons in the barrack/ take weapons out of the barrack, the marketplace may see a huge amount of use in altegames in order to sell axes and other wooden weapons for gold, so perhaps increasing the values won't totally ruin the building anyway.


This is a very valid point. After yesterday's game I've been thinking... And I'm pretty sure adding a marketplace into my gameplay would make me stronger for sure. You see, these times I have 2 problems: gold and food. Gold because I fail, food because I (semi-)rush. Yesterday my gold production was okay, I had 3 metallurgists and 3 schools and I could spam quite some units. But I noticed too late that 2 of my gold mines ran out and it took some time to make new ones, in which I lost valuable time. But even with those 3 metallurgists and 3 gold mines running I wasn't able to use all the weapons in my barracks. And eventually I had 70+ unused axes (and also some leather armour and bows). If I would trade those, it could solve food problems or gold problems. :?
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sado1

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Post 12 Mar 2013, 15:49

Re: Planned market changes

The Dark Lord wrote:This is a very valid point. After yesterday's game I've been thinking... And I'm pretty sure adding a marketplace into my gameplay would make me stronger for sure. You see, these times I have 2 problems: gold and food. Gold because I fail, food because I (semi-)rush. Yesterday my gold production was okay, I had 3 metallurgists and 3 schools and I could spam quite some units. But I noticed too late that 2 of my gold mines ran out and it took some time to make new ones, in which I lost valuable time. But even with those 3 metallurgists and 3 gold mines running I wasn't able to use all the weapons in my barracks. And eventually I had 70+ unused axes (and also some leather armour and bows). If I would trade those, it could solve food problems or gold problems. :?


The Dark Lord wrote:(...) And I'm pretty sure adding a marketplace into my gameplay (...)

:O
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The Dark Lord

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Post 12 Mar 2013, 16:13

Re: Planned market changes

Don't be so surprised, it's not like I never built one before; I just prefer to play without. But if it's really necessary (which it seems to be) I might be able to allow myself to build one... somewhere after peacetime...
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Da Revolution

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Post 12 Mar 2013, 16:15

Re: Planned market changes

TDL always builds one, but he hides it on the corner of the map.
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