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KaM Remake Donations

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Lewin

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KaM Remake Developer

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Joined: 16 Sep 2007, 22:00

Location: Australia

KaM Skill Level: Skilled

Post 20 Aug 2012, 12:08

KaM Remake Donations

We are now accepting donations to the KaM Remake project. They will be used to cover things like servers, domain name registration, software development licenses, hardware and other expenses. What we spend it on depends on how much money is donated. If you enjoy playing KaM Remake and would like to help support its development, please consider donating. We are using Paypal for donations, and you can choose the currency you wish to donate in from the ones supported by Paypal. Visit our donations page for more information:
http://www.kamremake.com/donations/

We encourage you to donate to help support the project, but please be aware that donating is completely optional. The mod is still 100% free and there will be no special features or rewards given to donors, but you will have our deep gratitude for your contribution to the future development of the Knights and Merchants Remake.

Thanks,
Lewin and Krom.
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Bo_

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Knight

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Joined: 26 Apr 2012, 17:18

Location: Belgium

KaM Skill Level: Beginner

Post 20 Aug 2012, 12:29

Re: KaM Remake Donations

No legal issues with joymania?
Still I'm happy that you will finaly be rewarded for your hard work.
(Even if the donnations will be used for the remake.)

I'll donate something as soon as possible. :)
Kick fast, think Bo.
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Lewin

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KaM Remake Developer

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Joined: 16 Sep 2007, 22:00

Location: Australia

KaM Skill Level: Skilled

Post 20 Aug 2012, 13:04

Re: KaM Remake Donations

Joymania doesn't exist any more, Topware (previously known as ZuXXeZ) are the original publishers of KaM and still own the copyright. Previously we were concerned they would not look kindly upon our project, and if we were accepting donations they might ask us to cease and desist.

However, somebody posted here that Topware have made a "2012" edition of KaM TPR available in their store on CD and download, which includes our KaM Remake installer. From this we are assuming they have nothing against our project, and given that they are making money from us (we're reviving the game and making people buy it before playing our "mod"), they should have no objections to us receiving a few voluntary donations. In fact, the continuation of the KaM Remake is probably in their best interests, since it means more sales of KaM and more recognition for their brand. I doubt we'll ever make thousands of dollars (or should I say euros) from it.
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Bo_

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Knight

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Location: Belgium

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Post 20 Aug 2012, 13:38

Re: KaM Remake Donations

Maybe you should ask them if they don't have any problem donnations, since it could cause you both realy big trouble.
Just to be sure, but like you said they're already making money with your project so I don't see any objections. :D
Kick fast, think Bo.
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Lewin

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KaM Remake Developer

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Joined: 16 Sep 2007, 22:00

Location: Australia

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Post 20 Aug 2012, 13:53

Re: KaM Remake Donations

mr Bo wrote:Maybe you should ask them if they don't have any problem donnations, since it could cause you both realy big trouble.
Just to be sure, but like you said they're already making money with your project so I don't see any objections. :D

They didn't ask us before including the Remake in their 2012 edition of KaM TPR. We could potentially get in trouble because we were using a music library that is only free in non-commercial projects (we have since changed to a free open source one, but it would have been nice to do that BEFORE they started "selling" it :rolleyes: ).

They didn't even send us a simple emailing saying "we are going to include your Remake in a re-release of the game, is that ok with you?". Not one word from them about the matter, they just went ahead and did it without us knowing :O

Why should we go groveling to them asking for permission to accept voluntary donations to our free mod when they can't even give us the grace of an email explaining what they were planning to do, and whether there might be any changes necessary before they did so, such as the music library...
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Private.NL

Axe Fighter

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Joined: 26 Jun 2012, 13:31

KaM Skill Level: Beginner

Post 20 Aug 2012, 14:10

Re: KaM Remake Donations

Lewin wrote:
mr Bo wrote:Maybe you should ask them if they don't have any problem donnations, since it could cause you both realy big trouble.
Just to be sure, but like you said they're already making money with your project so I don't see any objections. :D

They didn't ask us before including the Remake in their 2012 edition of KaM TPR. We could potentially get in trouble because we were using a music library that is only free in non-commercial projects (we have since changed to a free open source one, but it would have been nice to do that BEFORE they started "selling" it :rolleyes: ).

.......

Why should we go groveling to them asking for permission to accept voluntary donations to our free mod when they can't even give us the grace of an email explaining what they were planning to do, and whether there might be any changes necessary before they did so, such as the music library...
It will give us more players who play the Remake, so i don't see any problems there.
Always look on the bright side of KaM! :D
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T*AnTi-V!RuZz

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Former Site Admin

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Location: The Netherlands

KaM Skill Level: Beginner

Post 20 Aug 2012, 14:25

Re: KaM Remake Donations

Lewin wrote:They didn't even send us a simple emailing saying "we are going to include your Remake in a re-release of the game, is that ok with you?". Not one word from them about the matter, they just went ahead and did it without us knowing :O

And the funny thing is, it's still a demo, not a final release. So everyone that buys that 2012 edition has an old Remake version :P
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Lewin

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KaM Remake Developer

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Joined: 16 Sep 2007, 22:00

Location: Australia

KaM Skill Level: Skilled

Post 20 Aug 2012, 14:35

Re: KaM Remake Donations

Private.NL wrote:It will give us more players who play the Remake, so i don't see any problems there.

Yes of course, if they'd asked us we would have said "Yes that would be awesome, just let us remove this non-commercial-use music library so we don't get sued". They should have asked us or at least told us in my opinion.

The thing is, they wrote in the license agreement for the Remake on their CD that they take no responsibility for any copyright/patent infringement due to the Remake. So if we did get in trouble they get away clean and we take the blame. Here's the topic with the exact wording if you're interested:
viewtopic.php?f=8&t=1044#p15217
Of course there's no problem with them writing that, but I think they should have checked with us first in case there was anything that we would like to change before it gets shipped (it could even be in games shops in Germany I guess)

T*AnTi-V!RuZz wrote:And the funny thing is, it's still a demo, not a final release. So everyone that buys that 2012 edition has an old Remake version :P

I'm hoping they'll update it when we release new versions (we might actually email them about it especially because of the music library thing), but if not people can always download updates from our site.
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Siegfried

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Knight

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Joined: 24 Jul 2009, 22:00

Post 21 Aug 2012, 09:04

Re: KaM Remake Donations

Lewin wrote:[They didn't even send us a simple emailing saying "we are going to include your Remake in a re-release of the game, is that ok with you?". Not one word from them about the matter, they just went ahead and did it without us knowing :O

Why should we go groveling to them asking for permission to accept voluntary donations to our free mod when they can't even give us the grace of an email explaining what they were planning to do, and whether there might be any changes necessary before they did so, such as the music library...

Well, technically seen you put it under the GPLv2 license, so there is no need to inform or ask you about using your work. They could even copy your source code and work on it on their own. They even can make money out of it without paying you or even informing you.

However, there is a big catch - they have to supply the source code with their product. Did anyone ever download the version? If they did not provide the source code (where you would be credited), you could sue them.

The offer can be found in their shop as the download version or as the DVD version. Please notice the high system requirements! It's a hint that something is changed compared to the original.

They also have the good old TPR in their shop (click here). This has the very low system requirements, so I assume it's basically the same content that was on the CD.

Did anyone buy this product? Can you please have a look if they adhere to the GPL?
@Krom & Lewin: if ZuXXeZ breaks your licence conditions (which only the guy can confirm who bought this 2012 edition), there is an organization that offers help: http://gpl-violations.org/.

I did not see the topic before, but they seem to be in trouble. The disclaimer is without legal capacity because they violate the GPL. The rest is a matter for an advocate. You really should consider contacting the gpl-violations organization.
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Thorakh

Recruit

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Joined: 27 Jan 2011, 23:00

Post 21 Aug 2012, 14:58

Re: KaM Remake Donations

This just seems ridiculous. Incorporating your project without even telling you about it. Obviously it's great that they noticed the project and found it good enough to be shipped with their official release but the way they handled it just seems extremely sloppy.

If I were you I'd at least request a conversation with Topware, especially considering what Siegfried wrote.
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Lewin

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KaM Remake Developer

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Joined: 16 Sep 2007, 22:00

Location: Australia

KaM Skill Level: Skilled

Post 22 Aug 2012, 01:10

Re: KaM Remake Donations

@Siegfried: As far as I'm aware they simply included our installer that we have on our downloads page, they didn't recompile or anything. So I don't they broke the GPL. They included a link to our site so people could find the source code if they really wanted to. Do you mean they've broken the rules if the source code is not on their DVD? I don't think that's how it works because if I download a Linux CD the source code is not usually there too, it's just the binaries and you can download the source code separately.

I realise they weren't obliged to tell us, I just think it would have been polite.

I don't think it would be wise for us to threaten them, I mean they could say that we are not allowed to use any resources they own to the copyright to, which means all the sound, graphics, voices, music is gone, and there's no KaM Remake any more (making all the graphics in a different style would be an enormous amount of work, terrain, units, houses, etc.) They could basically tell us to stop and there's nothing we could do against it. They're a company with plenty of legal experience and their own legal team, and I don't see what we could get out of it anyway.
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Siegfried

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Knight

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Joined: 24 Jul 2009, 22:00

Post 22 Aug 2012, 07:15

Re: KaM Remake Donations

I can't give you a binding answer. I am no lawyer. The GPL says, that you are obliged to provide the source code. And there's a difference whether you are the original author and provide only a link to your source code (as you do) or if you take the work of someone other and provide a link to them. What does Topware do on their DVD?
It's a bit different with a Linux distribution. All of them provide the source code in their repositories. They don't oblige you to copy it to your harddisk, but they offer them for free on their own expense. On the other hand, Topware would be on the safe side if they provided a link to google.code because that's a free service that hosts your code.

Of course it's not wise to threat them, absolutely not! I agree with you. It's just an idea that you should keep in mind if they start to abuse the remake or even threaten you. But don't ever do anything on your own in this field, always take the help of experts. The FSF would provide help without cost, so this could be really helpful.

But: it's not so easy for them to forbid the use of their work. For one thing I am very sure that the use of the graphics etc. is a case of 'fair use'. You basically make a remix of their art, which is legal in almost all countries of the world (except my reactionary germany ...). I'd guess that you are on the safe side regarding the remake. I don't see any point where Topware really could do anything about the remake - except that you deliver some of the graphics with your installer, which is only poorly protected by the tpr-check.
For the other thing, their disclaimer is invalid breaks legal rules in your country. So basically the laws of australia/russia have to be applied, which are by far better than the german ones. Topware would have a hard time to forbid the remake outside of germany.

But summed up - that's all theoretical. You see, if Topware really included the ramke into their own products, they won't threaten the remake. Ever! So I'd suggest that you should try to be proud. After all it shows that you succeeded in making a complete game that people are willing to pay money for it. For you that's a very big thing if you start to apply for employment.

Don't be angry about the missing notification, obviously Topware isn't angry about you distributing their art either.

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