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Town Hall / Siege Workshop

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The Dark Lord

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Post 19 Oct 2013, 16:05

Re: Town Hall / Siege Workshop

I disagree, they will be overpowered badly. They kill knights in one shot... Get some axe fighters in front of them or anything else that can take at least a few hits and you win.
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pawel95

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Post 19 Oct 2013, 16:25

Re: Town Hall / Siege Workshop

The Dark Lord wrote:I disagree, they will be overpowered badly. They kill knights in one shot... Get some axe fighters in front of them or anything else that can take at least a few hits and you win.


I am not sure. I would like to test it also before write here many things. However you have to compare how fast knights are and that they can be attacked from behind (just the problems, bowmen also have). Btw maybe what would be also a realistic nice feature, to increase the MINIMUM shooting distance. So when you go with your units in front of shooting balista, they cant shoot on you anymore when you are too close(closer than 6 tiles e.g) because I remember tpr days, when I had like only 3 balistas left and the enemy had like 10 melee units and 10 bowmen, but with splitting up balista, i killed them all because the balista also shoot on them like 3 tiles away :P Just as an idea.

With many other ideas(Like my idea before that balistas and catapults must be refilled in the workshop after 10-15 shots(long road with that low speed vehicles)), and enough testing(+posting results) we should do it somehow, to balance them nicely. Like about the costs, I am not sure if 5 iron bars (+5 wood)is really "nothing" like many guys said, comparing to it that you can loose it easily with some hits from any unit...
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The Dark Lord

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Post 21 Oct 2013, 10:52

Re: Town Hall / Siege Workshop

There is something else that might cause problems: peacetime. What happens with finished siege weapons? They just keep rolling through our towns? :p
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Bludmaster

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Post 21 Oct 2013, 11:34

Re: Town Hall / Siege Workshop

What do you mean TDL? If iam right original idea was that you can start making siege wepons after PT. So youll never have many waiting inside of your town.
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pawel95

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Post 21 Oct 2013, 11:42

Re: Town Hall / Siege Workshop

Yeah i agree with blud, they should behave like troops. When you have some from beginning, you cant move them in PT when you will make some, the task will start after PT so mass catapults at PT (towers are useless) won't be possible that easily also...
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The Dark Lord

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Post 21 Oct 2013, 11:48

Re: Town Hall / Siege Workshop

Why would you prohibit making them during peace time?
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Bence791

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Post 21 Oct 2013, 12:58

Re: Town Hall / Siege Workshop

Why do you prohibit training soldiers in peacetime? For the same reason, of course.
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The Dark Lord

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Post 21 Oct 2013, 13:18

Re: Town Hall / Siege Workshop

Oh how smart, how could I not think of that.

...

The difference being that you can produce loads of weapons and recruits during peace time and spam it all out of your barracks when peace time is over, while you can't even make 1 siege weapon?
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sado1

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Post 21 Oct 2013, 14:07

Re: Town Hall / Siege Workshop

The Dark Lord wrote:The difference being that you can produce loads of weapons and recruits during peace time and spam it all out of your barracks when peace time is over, while you can't even make 1 siege weapon?

That's why townhall is useless and will never be implemented in its current form :P But about siege workshop... I actually think it's a feature, not a bug. I see no problem in making siege only after pt, to prevent people from spamming siege too much. Well, it's a bit inconsistent when you look at how normal troops are made, but it's not that important. Even if we get some idea on how to allow spamming siege weapons before pt, I'd still want to test non-spammable-before-pt ones first.
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pawel95

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Post 21 Oct 2013, 14:08

Re: Town Hall / Siege Workshop

Tdl is right. You can store weapons in barracks for nearly endless soldiers. When your siege workshop is full the materials are enough to make one siege car XD on one side that woukd bring like i said, a natural stop of making loads of catapults to make towers useless. So maybe it would be really better to make them IN PT but you cant move them..... (catapults should be normaly pushable by citizens like soldiers, so they won't block a main road in your city Xd
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Bludmaster

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Post 21 Oct 2013, 14:15

Re: Town Hall / Siege Workshop

No no no. The idea: you can make them after PT ends. Was to prevent people from rushing enemy towers and destroy them before attacked team can defend them.
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sado1

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Post 21 Oct 2013, 15:37

Re: Town Hall / Siege Workshop

OK then... Let's make siege weapons go to barracks on their own when produced.
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The Dark Lord

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Post 21 Oct 2013, 16:03

Re: Town Hall / Siege Workshop

Bludmaster wrote:No no no. The idea: you can make them after PT ends. Was to prevent people from rushing enemy towers and destroy them before attacked team can defend them.


But how could people destroy enemy towers with siege weapons if you can't move them? Which would be the case while still in peace time, I guess.

Being able to produce siege weapons only after peace time will indeed result in players not having too many siege weapons. But it is a very bad way to 'balance' things. They will still be overpowered, not only in single player (where you can build them right away) but also in multiplayer. Units that fit in the game, do not fit in the game because of some silly restrictions, but because they are more or less fair. In TPR, crossbowmen and bowmen were completely overpowered, I think everyone can agree with that. How did Lewin and Krom made them fit in the Remake? Did they say 'you can only make them after pt!'? No, they nerfed them. And that's what we need to do with siege weapons too. Because a unit that can easily kill more than 5 knights in a minute is slightly overpowered.
It wouldn't be bad if players made loads of siege weapons if they were fair units. The number of units of any kind one can make during or after peace time is restricted by presence and amount of resources and time. That should also count for siege weapons, not some weird time limit that varies with each game.
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WollongongWolf

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Post 21 Oct 2013, 16:21

Re: Town Hall / Siege Workshop

sado1 wrote:OK then... Let's make siege weapons go to barracks on their own when produced.

Better by serfs rather than on their own.

Though I rather stick to that long post from TDL, catapults option 2, ballista's option 1 (they are basically very strong bowmen, and bows and xbows are already hard to counter. Are they strong against knights? Perhaps, but simply solved: don;t get your knights near buildings (apart from that I find it rather realistic that when a stone hits your head, you are dead (imagine a part of the building colapsing). (I doubt they will be fast their anyway). Range is then ok as it is, and I think (though it needs testing to find out) an army can rather easily defend against it (neutralize them at least, note the iron those things costed in return for the iron you were able to use for troups). Massing them? Well good luck lining them up well then and protecting them all (if there is some resistance of course).
Regarding pt, agree on sado (but with serfs :P)

Owh and if somehow this doesn't come through, I still hope catapults (and ballista's) can at least be added like barbarians. In SP and MP. (Note I don't mention the siege shop!). Would be fun having 5-10 (OP) catapults for everyone to start with, protect them well and use them well.

Owh and one last thing (really, for now), perhaps siege stuff can be seperated from bows and xbows? (different banner, so they can't join)
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sado1

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Post 22 Oct 2013, 09:09

Re: Town Hall / Siege Workshop

WollongongWolf wrote:
sado1 wrote:OK then... Let's make siege weapons go to barracks on their own when produced.

Better by serfs rather than on their own.

Of course, but I always assume no one will be around to make entirely new animations for the Remake.

Yeah, TDL is right, we can't really add siege peacetime to single player :x
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