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Town Hall / Siege Workshop

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Bo_

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Post 29 Aug 2012, 18:11

Re: Town Hall / Siege Workshop

This reminds me that when I used to play the original campaign, I didn't get why my woodcutters didn't use their axe to fight back. :D
Kick fast, think Bo.
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Bence791

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Post 29 Aug 2012, 18:13

Re: Town Hall / Siege Workshop

and a Rogue seems like a Recruit with a sling in hand.. :D so Animal breeder+? for Rebels, and Recruits+? for Rogues (at barracks)?

or a Serf delivering a sword.. that was strange too :D


Edit: Imagine that you could simply spam your town full with Woodcutters.. They would worth spamming more than Militia, and would be the same "troop" .
The Kamper is always taking my colour!

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Jeronimo

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Post 29 Aug 2012, 18:25

Re: Town Hall / Siege Workshop

I agree soldiers could be cheaper due to their high cost in gold. Or better said... not possible to mass (for instance 5 chests 1 man, you need to wait recharging whole building for another expensive unit).

With the PeaceTime add-on, maybe we could just add TownHall again, I mean you can't mass in quantities (unless 4 townhalls and 4 treasuries which is crazy)... and troops there are generally WEAK.

NEW BALANCE [6 chests storage in Townhall]

*Rebel 2 (never 1, because would be better than militia or lancer)

*Rogue 2 (1 for man, 1 for "leather weapon")

*Vagabond 4 (1 for man, 1 for axe, 2 for donkey) -> horse in market could cost 4 instead of 5 chests.
Remember guys that with patch, vagabond doesnt have benefits since its militia... this unit is weak by nature.

*Barbarian 6 (indeed they should cost 6, calculate trading Swordfighter through market... Barbarians seem far "cheaper" then)

*Warrior 6 (same reason as above, but split from Barbarian -> each one has his own slot)
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sado1

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Post 29 Aug 2012, 18:39

Re: Town Hall / Siege Workshop

Jero I like your balance of Townhall, but this building is crap anyway and I'd rather see its units in Barracks, and I think I'm not alone here. Townhall has only 1 nice thing: building graphics, we should use it (for trading perhaps, as it was proposed before)...
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Bence791

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Post 29 Aug 2012, 19:27

Re: Town Hall / Siege Workshop

Hey guys, we shouldn't remove Town Hall... it's a part of the original KaM TPR... It is an important part of some fan-made campaigns, for example TCK (The Cruel King) too. You are disallowed to build anything else military buildings than Town Hall (in the earlier missions). You call it crap because it would be totally useless in multiplayer, but think about singleplayer too. You have the chance to block any buildings whichever you want. Why would it be a problem that it exists? You mostly play multiplayer, and almost never touch singleplayer. I don't say that you should rush single, and then don't do anything else than completing TSK and TPR... It was implemented into TPR because it is actually balanced. Who spams mercenaries will soon run out of gold. Everything has disadvantages, look behind the things. They can be killed easily, because they are in the same class as Militia (if we think of armor, except for Warriors/Barbarians). Typically that kind of things which "promises good, gives bad". When you focus on Town Hall, you won't have food. That isn't needed to produce gold. So don't just think about Barbarians/Warriors, think about the WHOLE system of this thing. Is it worth rushing for mercenaries? Decide, and then answer me..
The Kamper is always taking my colour!

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Siegfried

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Post 30 Aug 2012, 07:44

Re: Town Hall / Siege Workshop

I see only one true need for the town hall. And this is to have a second source of military units. So if the enemy stands inside your city with a low amount of troops attacking your barracks, you still have the chance to defend yourself (given that you spent time and resources to build this otherwise practically meaningless building).

But with that high need of chests that can't be stored in this house, it's so useless because you takes forever to even build a small army.

I think, it might be better to preserve the building for a better purpose (if we ever find one) and think about moving some troops to the barracks. It was already pointed out quite a time ago that many of them would fit nicely.

You see, there are 2 regular infantry troops (axe fighter and swordman) and 1 spam infantry troop (militia).
All other types of soldiers only have the 2 regular troops, so it could be nice to add the townhall troops as the spam troops to that. The rogue is the spam long-range-troop, the rebel the spam anti-horse and the vagabond the spam horse unit.

Well, and the warrior is kept out. It's the same as the barbarian with a different look, and they keep their status as a special unit. You can only have them from the beginning (if the mapper wants to), but you can't train them for yourself.

The problem however is, what resources should be spent on these troops? The milita only takes one resource, so should the vagabond be recruited with only a horse? Or a horse plus an axe? How about the rebel, is it only a lance that then changes magically to a pitchfork? And the slinger needs leather, but this is not a resource inside the barracks. Damnit.
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pawel95

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Post 30 Aug 2012, 09:01

Re: Town Hall / Siege Workshop

Bence791 wrote:Hey guys, we shouldn't remove Town Hall... it's a part of the original KaM TPR..


This is for me the most important sentence, because for me the Remake has fixed many problems and is the *better* KaM.
However things, that the developers have programmed in the orignal game, should be implement in the Remake,too BUT like many people said fixed. The balance of Jero. is nice.


pawel95
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Bo_

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Post 30 Aug 2012, 10:09

Re: Town Hall / Siege Workshop

IMO it should be: Hey guys, we should remove the town hall... It's not part of the original Kam TSK.
The townhall and siege workshop has been removed because it was a way of fixing the game, like you said.
They were not fun. Even in TPS I've never usded them just because they made the game too easy..
Kick fast, think Bo.
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Krom

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Post 30 Aug 2012, 10:11

Re: Town Hall / Siege Workshop

mr Bo wrote:IMO it should be: Hey guys, we should remove the town hall... It's not part of the original KaM TSK.


Well put :)
Knights Province at: http://www.knightsprovince.com
KaM Remake at: http://www.kamremake.com
Original MBWR/WR2/AFC/FVR tools at: http://krom.reveur.de
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pawel95

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Post 30 Aug 2012, 10:22

Re: Town Hall / Siege Workshop

mr Bo wrote:They were not fun. Even in TPS I've never usded them just because they made the game too easy..


Yeah this is right. That´s the reason the townhall only should be implent fixed. Or maybe the soldiers make without the townhall but where. You would have in multiplayers new soldiers like the vagabond, if you have only axes and horses. And Barbarian´s are mostly dead in the online games in the remake, which is really sad for me :D
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xROELOFx

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Post 30 Aug 2012, 11:43

Re: Town Hall / Siege Workshop

i've got an idea for the rebel. perhaps you can train them by sacrficing your servs. with that i mean, you hit a button (in town hall or maybe barracks) wich will enlist servs to become rebels. this makes sense, because in medieval times, when a town was under siege, every person would help to defend it with whatever weapon they could find (pitch forks anyone?). also, when the enemy is in your town, they can easily kill servs because they can't fight back. if there's a way to convert them into rebels, you might have a slightly better chance to push back the enemy from your town. even if you don't, it could benefit your allies by killing as much enemies as possible...

this could give the rebels and the townhall a (new) purpose in the game
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sado1

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Post 30 Aug 2012, 11:51

Re: Town Hall / Siege Workshop

That's something I thought about as well... not sure it fits KaM though. Would be nice if you could convert all the serfs to rebels at once - if you are under attack, you hit the alarm button and every serf changes direction and goes to the townhall (or maybe just barracks? I'm not sure we need to introduce whole new building for this). Then all the serfs can go out as rebels, and when the alarm button is hit again, they come to the barrack to change back to serfs. The price? Everything that serfs were holding before the alarm.
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andreasaspenberg

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Post 23 Sep 2012, 20:02

Re: Town Hall / Siege Workshop

i think that they should be optional rather than removed. a good idea then would be to make it visible on the join game screen if they are enabled or disabled. personally i want them in the game but if players dont like them making them optional would be the way to go.
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Da Revolution

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Post 23 Sep 2012, 20:04

Re: Town Hall / Siege Workshop

In its current form it will be almost useless andreas. So why would you add it while is has no use?

Edit: My comment counts for multiplayer not for singleplayer (don't know about that part)
"No one saves us but ourselves. No one can and no one may. We ourselves must walk the path" - Buddha
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thunder

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Post 03 Nov 2012, 11:54

Re: Town Hall / Siege Workshop

Hi!

I made a test. Sword(s) vs. Barb(s). On 2kind of ways when attacked barbs and when attacked swords. I repeat the 2 ways 5 times.
So it was 10 tests.

Barbs vs Swords/SUMs of 10test/ (barbs attacked;;;swords attacked)
1vs1
live: 8-2
kill:8-2
(1-0,1-0,0-1,1-0,1-0;;;1-0,1-0,0-1,1-0,1-0)

3vs3
live:14-7
kill:23-16
(1-0,0-1,3-0,3-0,2-0;;;2-0,0-2,0-1,3-0,0-3)

10vs10
live:26-21
kill:79-76
(6-0,0-8,3-0,0-4,6-0;;;5-0,3-0,3-0,0-6,0-3)

Barbs are absolutly better then swords. ANd interesting that in larger group swords started to fight little better.
And now the costs
Barbs:
2.5(3)gold ore+2.5(3)coal+10steps+transporttimes- 16 /+tptimes

Swords:
2iron ore+4coal+10steps+1gold ore+1 coal+4step+transporttimes- 22 /+tptimes

Now i think to the TH is what everybody would like from his/her heart (because it has lovely image :) , and more units, and blabla.... ) but the reality is here. Yes, its strong :(

It s just because some new topics intrested for TH.

t

P.S.: THs to the hands of mapmakers ;)
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