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Re: Town Hall / Siege Workshop

PostPosted: 11 Jan 2015, 09:36
by Esthlos
zombie01 wrote:some balance suggestions:
-Make them stronger vs building then vs units
-give them a high miss chance vs units

I think this could be used to also make them tactically different:
If Balistae had
  • extremely low attack versus all units except Catapults (units can dodge, Catapults are not that agile :wink: )
  • low damage to buildings

And Catapults had
  • high damage versus buildings
  • the missile they throw is a single, easily dodgeable stone with high attack versus units but is fired with an extremely low rate of fire (in my opinion it's hard to justify why a hard-hitting stone that is an insta-kill when thrown by towers should do little damage to units... with a low rate of fire, the effective damage they do to troops should be low anyway)

This would put them in a rock/paper/scissors system with Watchtowers:
Balista >(snipes)> Catapult >(destroys)> Watchtower >(is a way better defence than)> Balista

Wouldn't it?

Also, an "ammo meter" could be added to their interface: when it's depleted, they can no longer fire; also, they could get a button that allows the player to ask for Serfs to bring them ammo.
Catapults may use Stones directly; as for the Balistae, I don't know... maybe Tree Trunks?
Or maybe the Siege Workshop could be able to produce ammo from Stones and Tree Trunks, ammo that can't be stored in Storehouses nor bought nor sold at the Market?
(Having it as a special ware exclusive to Siege Workshops should be an easier solution)

And they could employ Recruits, maybe by simply making the Siege Workshop inhabitable by Recruits (with higher priority than Towers) when there are Siege Machines ready: when the Recruit enters the workshop, then the siege machine is actually deployed on the field.
Of course, then these siege machines could actually need to eat from time to time... :P

Re: Town Hall / Siege Workshop

PostPosted: 11 Jan 2015, 11:55
by Killer!!
I don't see the point why siege weapons aren't balanced?

I mean 1 balista or 1 catapult will cost you 5 iron bars and 5 timber!

Let's do some maths :P

for example:

1 balista = 2,5 crossbowman + 5 bowman (if you have enough leather ofc)
5 balista's = 12,5 crossbowman + 25 bowman
10 balista's = 25 crossbowman + 50 bowman

Maybe you think I prefer to have 10 balista's, who have the possibility to kill an unit with one shot instead of 75 ranged untis, but you have to know that you can have about 3 smithy's working 100% if you have 1 iron bar and 1 coal at each building for example.
If you look at a siege workshop they need 5 iron + 5 timber to make only 1 balista, so you can't have more then 1 (maybe 2) siege workshops at the same time, what means that the speed of making balista's is also alot slower then making normal untis.

And another thing, if you decide to make siege weapons you are problably not able to make other units because the rescources which are needed for a siege weapon are so high that it will slow down your other weapon workshops/smithy's.

Siege weapons are also very hard to keep "alive" or to bring them to the battlefield, because of there speed, which is so slow that they are not very handy to use them in fights.

So I think that siege weapons aren't that powerfull as everyone thinks they are, but idk what you think about this ;)

Re: Town Hall / Siege Workshop

PostPosted: 11 Jan 2015, 12:30
by Esthlos
Killer!! wrote:I don't see the point why siege weapons aren't balanced?

As far as I know, 5 balistae can hold off any army forever, if placed behind a base entry, with little to no counterplay whatsoever.
That's why they are considered to be unbalanced: because they're the only unit that if even slightly massed become nigh invincible.

Re: Town Hall / Siege Workshop

PostPosted: 11 Jan 2015, 12:51
by thunder
there are some possibility to change balance of G units also.
-reduce power-> there wont be 100% damage
-reduce fireing rate->less shouting /minutes
-reducing firing distances (original is 4 to 10 tiles--> 6-10tiles)
-reducing defence points -original 3-4 arrows/hits kills these units->1-2 arrows/hits kills these units
...
etc.

cost of 1 siege units is 5ironbar +5timber = 2,5xbow +2,5milities
2 SG units = 5xbow+5 milities

Re: Town Hall / Siege Workshop

PostPosted: 13 Jan 2015, 16:42
by Ben
Esthlos wrote:
Killer!! wrote:I don't see the point why siege weapons aren't balanced?

As far as I know, 5 balistae can hold off any army forever, if placed behind a base entry, with little to no counterplay whatsoever.
That's why they are considered to be unbalanced: because they're the only unit that if even slightly massed become nigh invincible.



With AI, yes. But a human player has a much better possibility to counter siege equipment via maneuvers. I think that's worth considering, as many people probably think of siege equipment as they were used against the (very stupid) AI in TPR.

Re: Town Hall / Siege Workshop

PostPosted: 09 Mar 2015, 10:07
by Michalpl
Ben wrote:
Esthlos wrote:
Killer!! wrote:I don't see the point why siege weapons aren't balanced?

As far as I know, 5 balistae can hold off any army forever, if placed behind a base entry, with little to no counterplay whatsoever.
That's why they are considered to be unbalanced: because they're the only unit that if even slightly massed become nigh invincible.



With AI, yes. But a human player has a much better possibility to counter siege equipment via maneuvers. I think that's worth considering, as many people probably think of siege equipment as they were used against the (very stupid) AI in TPR.


Well AI could be hard if it would build balistas

Re: Town Hall / Siege Workshop

PostPosted: 25 Jul 2017, 16:15
by HellFriend
thunder wrote:there are some possibility to change balance of G units also.
-reduce power-> there wont be 100% damage
-reduce fireing rate->less shouting /minutes
-reducing firing distances (original is 4 to 10 tiles--> 6-10tiles)
-reducing defence points -original 3-4 arrows/hits kills these units->1-2 arrows/hits kills these units
...
etc.

cost of 1 siege units is 5ironbar +5timber = 2,5xbow +2,5milities
2 SG units = 5xbow+5 milities


Good idea but ill prefer siege unit strong vs building and weak vs units. Witch decrease armor a i dont agree beacause after this nerf os siege unit useless.

Impresive idea which i read was implement town hall unit to castle.

I hope that one day ill sebe this update

Re: Town Hall / Siege Workshop

PostPosted: 25 Jul 2017, 20:32
by thunder
Good idea but ill prefer siege unit strong vs building and weak vs units. Witch decrease armor a i dont agree beacause after this nerf os siege unit useless.

I had this in my mind today again...for me already doesn't matter what way, but would be nice to see them in the game... It can not be OP on the original way... 5itronbars+5timber for one slow undefended unit...rather make 2,5+2,5soilder (2siege units vs 10normal units (5iron+5wooden))

Impresive idea which i read was implement town hall unit to castle.

It is testable in scripted form, you can try out the strategies.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B0ZYfN ... 5qVTg/view
I hope that one day ill sebe this update

Me too!

Re: Town Hall / Siege Workshop

PostPosted: 26 Nov 2017, 14:33
by thunder