Map Database  •  FAQ  •  RSS  •  Login

Differences between remake and vanilla

<<

Lewin

User avatar

KaM Remake Developer

Posts: 3822

Joined: 16 Sep 2007, 22:00

KaM Skill Level: Skilled

ICQ: 269127056

Website: http://lewin.hodgman.id.au

Yahoo Messenger: lewinlewinhodgman

Location: Australia

Post 15 Aug 2012, 16:40

Re: Differences between remake and vanilla

Btw, if I remember right you said some months ago that the new release will be published somewhere in september. That is slightly too optimistic of course, but when can we expect another update approximately?
We're currently doing the final preparations before releasing the release candidate (beta) to play testers, it will hopefully be sent out in a few days. If anybody wants to help test it and find bugs/issues please contact us and we'll add you to the mailing list. It's really helpful to us and it gives you an opportunity to influence/assist the development of the game. The release candidates are usually fairly stable so usually all you need to do is play multiplayer games like you usually would and send any reports if it crashes. Of course singleplayer, replays, campaigns and other features also need testing, although we do usually focus on thoroughly testing multiplayer.

It's hard to tell when the public version will be released, it depends on the number of issues found in the release candidate, and the number of people testing it for us (it's quicker with lots of people playing it and finding/reporting bugs). In the past it has taken about 4 weeks of beta testing to get enough bugs fixed to release publicly. We release new versions to the play testers every week or so as we fix the bugs reported.

So I think a public release in September is still realistic :) Although I'm usually wrong when I try and make predictions like this :P
<<

`Maurice

Militia

Posts: 45

Joined: 31 Jan 2012, 23:38

KaM Skill Level: Fair

Location: The Netherlands

Post 16 Aug 2012, 00:19

Re: Differences between remake and vanilla

Btw, if I remember right you said some months ago that the new release will be published somewhere in september. That is slightly too optimistic of course, but when can we expect another update approximately?
We're currently doing the final preparations before releasing the release candidate (beta) to play testers, it will hopefully be sent out in a few days. If anybody wants to help test it and find bugs/issues please contact us and we'll add you to the mailing list. It's really helpful to us and it gives you an opportunity to influence/assist the development of the game. The release candidates are usually fairly stable so usually all you need to do is play multiplayer games like you usually would and send any reports if it crashes. Of course singleplayer, replays, campaigns and other features also need testing, although we do usually focus on thoroughly testing multiplayer.

It's hard to tell when the public version will be released, it depends on the number of issues found in the release candidate, and the number of people testing it for us (it's quicker with lots of people playing it and finding/reporting bugs). In the past it has taken about 4 weeks of beta testing to get enough bugs fixed to release publicly. We release new versions to the play testers every week or so as we fix the bugs reported.

So I think a public release in September is still realistic :) Although I'm usually wrong when I try and make predictions like this :P
Sounds good, im really looking forward to it :)

I'm just wondering and i dont know if this has been posted somewhere already, but what will be the biggest changes in the new version?
I guess there will be new maps and maybe some old maps deleted, but im curious if there will be any "big" changes.
<<

Lewin

User avatar

KaM Remake Developer

Posts: 3822

Joined: 16 Sep 2007, 22:00

KaM Skill Level: Skilled

ICQ: 269127056

Website: http://lewin.hodgman.id.au

Yahoo Messenger: lewinlewinhodgman

Location: Australia

Post 16 Aug 2012, 02:58

Re: Differences between remake and vanilla

Sounds good, im really looking forward to it :)

I'm just wondering and i dont know if this has been posted somewhere already, but what will be the biggest changes in the new version?
I guess there will be new maps and maybe some old maps deleted, but im curious if there will be any "big" changes.
You can see a very rough changelog here:
http://castlesand.googlecode.com/svn/tr ... uglist.txt

Items with a "+" have been added/fixed. Not all changes are listed there, we mainly use that list for bugs/minor improvements. Some other big changes:
- Campaign stories are narrated
- Death animations are smoothed (semi-transparent)
- You can place a beacon in multiplayer to alert your allies to something
- Hotkeys for army
- Other stuff I haven't remembered

Cheers,
Lewin.
<<

kamil

Post 16 Aug 2012, 08:32

Re: Differences between remake and vanilla

Changelog - beautiful. But when it be done? (6)
<<

The Dark Lord

User avatar

King Karolus Servant

Posts: 2154

Joined: 29 Aug 2007, 22:00

KaM Skill Level: Veteran

Location: In his dark thunderstormy castle

Post 16 Aug 2012, 08:34

Re: Differences between remake and vanilla

Please read a few posts up and you'll know. ;)
<<

kamil

Post 16 Aug 2012, 08:50

Re: Differences between remake and vanilla

"September" - aaaa :)
<<

Leeuwgie

User avatar

Sword Fighter

Posts: 257

Joined: 22 Apr 2012, 00:33

KaM Skill Level: Beginner

Post 12 Mar 2013, 01:51

Re: Differences between remake and vanilla

Ok maybe time to post some more things I noticed while playing the remake in comparisson to the original. I'm pretty sure in the original when serfs delivered some wares to houses they took out more wares then they do now in the remake. Probably another serf is already walking to the same house too to take the item out. But I remember that in the original the serf who was closer also took out the item while the other serf cancelled his task, why is this changed in the remake?
Another thing is that if someone hungry enters the inn but its empty he returns to his house immediately, even if a serfs just brought in some food. It looks like the responsetime is different then in the original where the hungry person would re-enter the inn for sure. It's a short moment but still makes a huge difference I think. Sometimes I see a hungry worker who leaves his house to go to the inn re-enter his house, while I see there is food available.
I also noticed when your armorsmithy has 5 armor made (and you have no barracks yet or blocked the item to the storehouse) the worker refuses to make shields untill atleast 1 armor is taken out. It makes no sence and works ineffecient.
Last thing I like to mention is when you demolish a woodcuttershut in the remake while the woodcutter returns with a treetrunk the item is lost while in the original he carried it with him to the other woodcuttershut. It's a small thing but still it's a waste imo. So ofcourse the remake is way better then the buggy original, don't get me wrong but to me the things I mentioned here could be used to improve the remake even more.

To
No matter what, always keep smiling ~ Bassie (from Bassie & Adriaan)
<<

Ben

User avatar

Former Site Admin

Posts: 3814

Joined: 08 Jan 2009, 23:00

Location: California - Pacific Time (UTC -8/-7 Summer Time)

Post 12 Mar 2013, 02:24

Re: Differences between remake and vanilla

I also noticed when your armorsmithy has 5 armor made (and you have no barracks yet or blocked the item to the storehouse) the worker refuses to make shields untill atleast 1 armor is taken out. It makes no sence and works ineffecient.
Test this again, because I am sure that Remake blacksmiths will produce the shields in your scenario you mentioned. ;)
I used to spam this forum so much...
<<

Lewin

User avatar

KaM Remake Developer

Posts: 3822

Joined: 16 Sep 2007, 22:00

KaM Skill Level: Skilled

ICQ: 269127056

Website: http://lewin.hodgman.id.au

Yahoo Messenger: lewinlewinhodgman

Location: Australia

Post 12 Mar 2013, 03:23

Re: Differences between remake and vanilla

I'm pretty sure in the original when serfs delivered some wares to houses they took out more wares then they do now in the remake. Probably another serf is already walking to the same house too to take the item out. But I remember that in the original the serf who was closer also took out the item while the other serf cancelled his task, why is this changed in the remake?
It looks bad to the player if a serf is walking somewhere and suddenly stops walking, or turns around and goes the other way (I can imagine emails saying "The new release is bugged! Serfs forget what they are doing!"). I have another idea for how to solve this (the serf taking the ware in reserves the resource before he gets there so nobody else can take it), I'll try it out at some point.
Another thing is that if someone hungry enters the inn but its empty he returns to his house immediately, even if a serfs just brought in some food. It looks like the responsetime is different then in the original where the hungry person would re-enter the inn for sure. It's a short moment but still makes a huge difference I think. Sometimes I see a hungry worker who leaves his house to go to the inn re-enter his house, while I see there is food available.
I've looked at the code and if the inn has food in it when he finish stepping out of the door, he will go back in. I haven't tested it but that's the way it looks from the code: When he finishes stepping out of the door he makes a decision to go eat (if possible) otherwise he returns home. I think that's the way it worked in KaM too.
I also noticed when your armorsmithy has 5 armor made (and you have no barracks yet or blocked the item to the storehouse) the worker refuses to make shields untill atleast 1 armor is taken out. It makes no sence and works ineffecient.
That's a bug which was fixed recently.
Last thing I like to mention is when you demolish a woodcuttershut in the remake while the woodcutter returns with a treetrunk the item is lost while in the original he carried it with him to the other woodcuttershut. It's a small thing but still it's a waste imo.
That doesn't fit with the way we've designed unit tasks in the Remake, it would be hard for us to make it work like that. I don't think it's very important really, just let him take it back to his house and let a serf take it before you demolish it. with "cut only" mode you don't have to worry about him planting more trees.
<<

Krom

User avatar

Knights Province Developer

Posts: 3280

Joined: 09 May 2006, 22:00

KaM Skill Level: Fair

Location: Russia

Post 12 Mar 2013, 07:11

Re: Differences between remake and vanilla

@Leeuwgie : I want to note, that from your post it feels like we took KaM source code and deliberately made some things worse. Well, thats not the way it is at all. We had to rewrote every single bit from scratch trying to match the looks and feels, while also adding changes to improve the game.

Wares: I believe KaM acted the same way. We could do the booking like Lewin says, but that is not so easy as it sounds. To be able to book a ware serf needs to ask all free serfs if they could do it quicker than him, and if not - only then the booking should happen. There are many such little things to check.

Wood: I believe that didn't happened in KaM like you describe, are you sure?

Anyway, I'm happy you call these issues "a huge difference", because in fact they are quite tiny details. Don't get me wrong though, it's great you found these, so that we can try to fix them :)
Knights Province at: http://www.knightsprovince.com
KaM Remake at: http://www.kamremake.com
Original MBWR/WR2/AFC/FVR tools at: http://krom.reveur.de
<<

thommerd

User avatar

Blacksmith

Posts: 27

Joined: 31 Mar 2012, 15:40

KaM Skill Level: Average

Location: Netherlands

Post 12 Mar 2013, 15:37

Re: Differences between remake and vanilla

As for the wood part I can't say if this is true but what I do know is that this did happen with the stonemason. When you destroyed the stonecutter's house while he was returning with stone het would still keep the stone in the original, this is not working in the remake. I don't remember if they would cut the stone if they got a new stonemason though.

Also something different I noticed was the grow style of trees and corn. In the original I remember that the map would sort of refresh in horizantal lines starting from the top. At each horizontal line the trees and corn would grow and then the next line would grow and so on. I think they now grow seperatly on a sort of timer?
I don't know if this was changed on purpose and I dont really mind the change but still I found it funny to notice:)
<<

Lewin

User avatar

KaM Remake Developer

Posts: 3822

Joined: 16 Sep 2007, 22:00

KaM Skill Level: Skilled

ICQ: 269127056

Website: http://lewin.hodgman.id.au

Yahoo Messenger: lewinlewinhodgman

Location: Australia

Post 12 Mar 2013, 15:55

Re: Differences between remake and vanilla

As for the wood part I can't say if this is true but what I do know is that this did happen with the stonemason. When you destroyed the stonecutter's house while he was returning with stone het would still keep the stone in the original, this is not working in the remake. I don't remember if they would cut the stone if they got a new stonemason though.
I think I remember this happening in KaM. It would be quite a lot of work to implement it in the Remake for very little gain. IMO it doesn't add much to the game.
Also something different I noticed was the grow style of trees and corn. In the original I remember that the map would sort of refresh in horizantal lines starting from the top. At each horizontal line the trees and corn would grow and then the next line would grow and so on. I think they now grow seperatly on a sort of timer?
Yes I think in KaM the terrain was updated row by row, which sometimes looked quite odd and unnatural. In the Remake we've tried to make it look more normal by updating things more randomly.
I don't know if this was changed on purpose
I'd like to reinforce what Krom said. Nothing in the Remake was "changed", it was all written from the ground up with no knowledge of how the KaM creators had written it. When we made the terrain we weren't thinking: "We need trees to grow row by row exactly like KaM did. Hmmm maybe we can change this for the lolz". We just thought "We need trees to grow". Whether they update row by row or not is completely irrelevant to the gameplay of KaM, and so it obviously wasn't one of the things we considered when we were designing the terrain system. So just remember that sometimes we didn't "change" something "on purpose", it was just implemented that way because it seemed like the best way to do it at the time, or it's how we thought it worked in KaM.
<<

Ben

User avatar

Former Site Admin

Posts: 3814

Joined: 08 Jan 2009, 23:00

Location: California - Pacific Time (UTC -8/-7 Summer Time)

Post 18 Mar 2013, 06:49

Re: Differences between remake and vanilla

I noticed another thing that was changed in the Remake (just kidding, lol). But, seriously now: When serfs are bring timber and stone to a building, in the Remake, they deliver it by stepping directly in front of the building. That's all fine and good, but if a laborer is working there it can be a pain. Joymania thought of this when they were developing KaM, so in the original, it is possible for serfs to drop the building supplies off at the two tiles adjacent to the door of a building. Example:

Image

Above, you can see that in the original KaM, serfs would be able to deliver the supplies at any of the three tiles with an x on them. I believe that the Remake should do this also.
I used to spam this forum so much...
<<

Krom

User avatar

Knights Province Developer

Posts: 3280

Joined: 09 May 2006, 22:00

KaM Skill Level: Fair

Location: Russia

Post 18 Mar 2013, 08:32

Re: Differences between remake and vanilla

We changed that since r2000 version or so, because of refactoring. Initially serfs need a destination to their walk, either specific tile or a unit. in case with unit any tile around it is fine.

If I remember KaM right, serfs tried to stand in front of entrance to give the building material, and only if that was occupied they would try to give from diagonal. I dont remember how it was with houses with entrances on corner, would serfs be able to give materials from side?
Knights Province at: http://www.knightsprovince.com
KaM Remake at: http://www.kamremake.com
Original MBWR/WR2/AFC/FVR tools at: http://krom.reveur.de
<<

Lewin

User avatar

KaM Remake Developer

Posts: 3822

Joined: 16 Sep 2007, 22:00

KaM Skill Level: Skilled

ICQ: 269127056

Website: http://lewin.hodgman.id.au

Yahoo Messenger: lewinlewinhodgman

Location: Australia

Post 18 Mar 2013, 10:20

Re: Differences between remake and vanilla

If I remember KaM right, serfs tried to stand in front of entrance to give the building material, and only if that was occupied they would try to give from diagonal. I dont remember how it was with houses with entrances on corner, would serfs be able to give materials from side?
No, in KaM serfs would always give wares from ANY tile next to the door. On houses with the door at the side they would actually drop them off from diagonally above the door (which I always thought was strange). Basically in KaM the serf's task is "walk until you are on a tile next to the doorway", then they will drop of the ware.

Return to “Feedback / Discussion”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 8 guests