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Finally beat TSK 8 (Thank god) (Campaign Replays/Discussion)

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Looseminded

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Post 18 Mar 2014, 19:27

Finally beat TSK 8 (Thank god) (Campaign Replays/Discussion)

In the 10+ years I've played this game, not once have I been able to get past TSK8 without using a cheat code of some sort because I'm awful XD so the fact that I was able to do this in the remake makes me happy (r5503)

Game's about 2:20 in length, and my planning could have been better, but I made it past. :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
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Last edited by Looseminded on 22 Mar 2014, 05:21, edited 1 time in total.
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cmowla

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Post 18 Mar 2014, 22:56

Re: Finally beat TSK 8 (Thank god)

Congratulations! I can't imagine what type of relief you feel now after not being able to win it for 10 years!
Invasion and Lava Valley with 0 losses|Invasion (without saves)|TSK 20 in 4.47 minutes|Northern Islands I Co-op in 1.71 hours
What makes me an Expert isn't my skill in of itself but my desire to win big.
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Looseminded

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Post 18 Mar 2014, 23:12

Re: Finally beat TSK 8 (Thank god)

Hahahaha, thank you! To be fair I was 11 when I started, so getting past mission 2 was a struggle :p, only been getting back into this the past couple months after a fairly long hiatus.
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Menszu

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Post 19 Mar 2014, 06:49

Re: Finally beat TSK 8 (Thank god)

Hah, as a kid I also stopped at this one ; D Congrats!
Puny lords starving your subjects, such weakness, shame on you...
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Ben

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Post 20 Mar 2014, 05:51

Re: Finally beat TSK 8 (Thank god)

I have just one question: at about 0:40:00ish, why did you delete your woodcutter...and then immediately rebuild it? :P :D

Anyway congrats ;)
#thunderposting #greentornado
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CuDi

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Post 20 Mar 2014, 07:07

Re: Finally beat TSK 8 (Thank god)

It's interesting to me that you struggled in the original KaM yet beat it in the remake. I seemed to have an easier time when playing the original, and the two attempts I've made with the remake (mind you, I don't play much single player these days) have been a failure. I suppose I'll have to alter the way I build towers as opposed to the way I did in the original game, seeing as though the AI acts a little differently.
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cmowla

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Post 20 Mar 2014, 13:56

Re: Finally beat TSK 8 (Thank god)

CuDi wrote: I suppose I'll have to alter the way I build towers as opposed to the way I did in the original game, seeing as though the AI acts a little differently.
If you see his replay, he did what I did when I won this mission (in r5503) in 30 minutes and 54 seconds. Forget about towers. Just use buildings as a "wall". However, have a single bowman fire at the barb groups from the left to draw them to the left (keep them from going in between the quarry and stone mountain). Just watch my replay as an example.

Most importantly, if you watch my replay, notice that I had 5-6 bowmen facing the east instead of straight. Put them about 5 tiles below where the enemy attacks and halt them consistently. This kills any unit almost instantly, sometimes without single one of your men's arrows or a swing from your infantry. This is how I got 0 losses in TSK07 as well. You don't want too many bowmen facing forward firing because you have leather units...20 arrows causes more harm than good (which is why I managed to survive the initial attack with just 6 bowmen).
Invasion and Lava Valley with 0 losses|Invasion (without saves)|TSK 20 in 4.47 minutes|Northern Islands I Co-op in 1.71 hours
What makes me an Expert isn't my skill in of itself but my desire to win big.
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Looseminded

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Post 21 Mar 2014, 04:34

Re: Finally beat TSK 8 (Thank god)

Ben wrote:I have just one question: at about 0:40:00ish, why did you delete your woodcutter...and then immediately rebuild it? :P :D

Anyway congrats ;)

I destroyed it because I didn't want to build a 5th woodcutter when I had no plan to use more than four. He was sent up north to chop the trees around there down, which I planned to use for buildings if I needed the space because my attack failed. In reality it was pretty stupid because the logs that he chopped down took FOREVER to get used.

CuDi wrote:It's interesting to me that you struggled in the original KaM yet beat it in the remake. I seemed to have an easier time when playing the original, and the two attempts I've made with the remake (mind you, I don't play much single player these days) have been a failure. I suppose I'll have to alter the way I build towers as opposed to the way I did in the original game, seeing as though the AI acts a little differently.


I think I struggled because of exactly that, the remake has a different (aka SMARTER) AI compared to the original, which may be why I had such a difficult time. I can't seem to get buildings completed soon enough in the original, and usually just get wrecked because of that, even if I do lure enemies out to my troops and then sneak in.

Also, if you notice at the second/third (depending on how it's looked at) battle around 01:36, the bowmen are inaccurate vs troops in large quantities whereas they weren't in the original, so using shells of buildings for defense is a lot harder to do, that's why I've been trying to employ strategies that don't use those :P

I'm actually in the process of working on strategies for TSK 09 at the moment due to how limited the space you're given is. I might end up employing one of Cmowla's strats and using buildings as barricades to sneak in and break some barracks since the building AI is stupid and doesn't make a weapons workshop. (which is a possible bug, I know they do in the original as I like to explore as much of the map as I can, and have seen them build it)
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CuDi

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Post 22 Mar 2014, 02:33

Re: Finally beat TSK 8 (Thank god)

cmowla wrote:
CuDi wrote: I suppose I'll have to alter the way I build towers as opposed to the way I did in the original game, seeing as though the AI acts a little differently.
If you see his replay, he did what I did when I won this mission (in r5503) in 30 minutes and 54 seconds. Forget about towers. Just use buildings as a "wall". However, have a single bowman fire at the barb groups from the left to draw them to the left (keep them from going in between the quarry and stone mountain). Just watch my replay as an example.

Most importantly, if you watch my replay, notice that I had 5-6 bowmen facing the east instead of straight. Put them about 5 tiles below where the enemy attacks and halt them consistently. This kills any unit almost instantly, sometimes without single one of your men's arrows or a swing from your infantry. This is how I got 0 losses in TSK07 as well. You don't want too many bowmen facing forward firing because you have leather units...20 arrows causes more harm than good (which is why I managed to survive the initial attack with just 6 bowmen).


Although this sounds effective, to me placing building blueprints and using them as a wall is an exploit, so I will use other means. Thanks though!

Looseminded wrote:
CuDi wrote:It's interesting to me that you struggled in the original KaM yet beat it in the remake. I seemed to have an easier time when playing the original, and the two attempts I've made with the remake (mind you, I don't play much single player these days) have been a failure. I suppose I'll have to alter the way I build towers as opposed to the way I did in the original game, seeing as though the AI acts a little differently.


I think I struggled because of exactly that, the remake has a different (aka SMARTER) AI compared to the original, which may be why I had such a difficult time. I can't seem to get buildings completed soon enough in the original, and usually just get wrecked because of that, even if I do lure enemies out to my troops and then sneak in.

Also, if you notice at the second/third (depending on how it's looked at) battle around 01:36, the bowmen are inaccurate vs troops in large quantities whereas they weren't in the original, so using shells of buildings for defense is a lot harder to do, that's why I've been trying to employ strategies that don't use those :P

I'm actually in the process of working on strategies for TSK 09 at the moment due to how limited the space you're given is. I might end up employing one of Cmowla's strats and using buildings as barricades to sneak in and break some barracks since the building AI is stupid and doesn't make a weapons workshop. (which is a possible bug, I know they do in the original as I like to explore as much of the map as I can, and have seen them build it)


Haha, doesn't that mean it would be harder to beat, seeing as though the AI is smarter?

As for mission 9, I have a screenshot of my build around somewhere. Let me see if I can find it.

Image

It's quite an old screenshot so it isn't the best build in the world, but you get the general jist of how it can be done.
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Looseminded

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Post 22 Mar 2014, 05:08

Re: Finally beat TSK 8 (Thank god)

CuDi wrote:
Looseminded wrote:
CuDi wrote:It's interesting to me that you struggled in the original KaM yet beat it in the remake. I seemed to have an easier time when playing the original, and the two attempts I've made with the remake (mind you, I don't play much single player these days) have been a failure. I suppose I'll have to alter the way I build towers as opposed to the way I did in the original game, seeing as though the AI acts a little differently.


I think I struggled because of exactly that, the remake has a different (aka SMARTER) AI compared to the original, which may be why I had such a difficult time. I can't seem to get buildings completed soon enough in the original, and usually just get wrecked because of that, even if I do lure enemies out to my troops and then sneak in.

Also, if you notice at the second/third (depending on how it's looked at) battle around 01:36, the bowmen are inaccurate vs troops in large quantities whereas they weren't in the original, so using shells of buildings for defense is a lot harder to do, that's why I've been trying to employ strategies that don't use those :P

I'm actually in the process of working on strategies for TSK 09 at the moment due to how limited the space you're given is. I might end up employing one of Cmowla's strats and using buildings as barricades to sneak in and break some barracks since the building AI is stupid and doesn't make a weapons workshop. (which is a possible bug, I know they do in the original as I like to explore as much of the map as I can, and have seen them build it)


Haha, doesn't that mean it would be harder to beat, seeing as though the AI is smarter?

As for mission 9, I have a screenshot of my build around somewhere. Let me see if I can find it.

Image

It's quite an old screenshot so it isn't the best build in the world, but you get the general jist of how it can be done.


You would think so wouldn't you?! I was actually referring to the serf/laborer AI, not the troop AI, althrough the troop AI is pretty smart too considering they start giving chase after the arrow is let go instead of 3-5 seconds after it lands, and in much larger numbers as well.

I might take a screenshot of my current build about 2 hours in. I know I could definitely do better with my layout. Will edit this post if I get one.

Image

Layout is absolutely abysmal but I always seem to have a food/starvation issue (which I hate) so I try to make sure my food production is sufficient. May be why my layout is the way it is. This was taken at about 2:25
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cmowla

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Post 23 Mar 2014, 15:51

Re: Finally beat TSK 8 (Thank god) (Campaign Replays/Discuss

Hey Looseminded,

I played TSK09 in r5503 and won by building (instead of winning with my initial army) for the first time.

Here's how I have roughly handled mission 9's limited building space throughout the years to build a sufficient army (to win without any "exploitation" as CuDi calls it) fast and not have a starvation issue.

(I messed up with my placements of woodcutters at the beginning, but it didn't affect me because so much timber and trunks were given at the start). Perhaps you can see the layout, make improvements, and use as a start for your strategy?
cmowla TSK9 (Build and Fight).zip

I will say my watch tower next to the enemy in the north was a first time ordeal, but it was funny. :)
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Invasion and Lava Valley with 0 losses|Invasion (without saves)|TSK 20 in 4.47 minutes|Northern Islands I Co-op in 1.71 hours
What makes me an Expert isn't my skill in of itself but my desire to win big.
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Looseminded

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Post 29 Mar 2014, 07:09

Re: Finally beat TSK 8 (Thank god) (Campaign Replays/Discuss

I'll have to look at this XD Sounds good, thanks!

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