Review your Game Play

[The Dark Lord]

1. The farms have their fields above the building, which is about the most inefficient place as they can be.

You used to do it like that, right?

Btw, still haven't seen the promised 30 sword fighters, 60 bowmen and 25 militia at 60 pt.

[Da Revolution]

You used to do it like that, right?

Kinda, but I also place farms above those fields. Often first the ones above and the ones under it after there was grain to harvest. Although I got some new setup now.

[Bence791]

Which you never use due to no games -_-" :c

I don't need 70 bows Bence xD

I meant Pizza made 70 bowmen on BitD loc2, + 30 pikes. And you need 60 bows+25 axes instead

[The Dark Lord]

Maybe it's possible with infinite timber or infinite gold... Otherwise I don't see how you can possibly have enough timber and gold, since you need to build everything at the same time (gold, iron and farms, otherwise you won't have enough swords/leather/gold for the soldiers). So you need to start with 2 schools and constantly supply them, so you can make like what, 50 builders? Then you start spamming buildings so you'll need loads of timber, you will also need much stone for all these roads and buildings, you will need loads of serfs to deliver everything... And you even said you would reach those numbers AND have 'good food'.
So yeah, good luck...

[Smogon]

1. The farms have their fields above the building, which is about the most inefficient place as they can be.

You used to do it like that, right?

Btw, still haven't seen the promised 30 sword fighters, 60 bowmen and 25 militia at 60 pt.

I can't make that on golden cliffs, but To wanted to see the build on loc 4/6 so I tried it.

Maybe it's possible with infinite timber or infinite gold... Otherwise I don't see how you can possibly have enough timber and gold, since you need to build everything at the same time (gold, iron and farms, otherwise you won't have enough swords/leather/gold for the soldiers). So you need to start with 2 schools and constantly supply them, so you can make like what, 50 builders? Then you start spamming buildings so you'll need loads of timber, you will also need much stone for all these roads and buildings, you will need loads of serfs to deliver everything... And you even said you would reach those numbers AND have 'good food'.
So yeah, good luck...

Only on special locs this is possible example, Mercenary had 64 bowmen on majestic waters.
But I'm not satisfied yet with this build since it needs lots of changing... And so far the average is 50 bowmen 25 sword 15 militia. But I'm already happy I could made this on a hard loc

[Leeuwgie]

'As we all know loc 3 has the most trees of all locs on Golden Cliffs, so I like to see this build on lets say location 6 or 4' ~To

I made the same build at location 6 GC with the same number of weapons. And a better economy aswell. But too bad I forgot about the 3rd goldsmelter at the 20th minute.

Badly placed farms or not, the output is pretty cool (for the restored slow GC). I was thinking, are 60 bows really needed (at pt)? What about 40 bows, 30-40 swords and 20+ mils, I think its even a better army...

The shoutcast were pizza abused the market to pump 70 bows out, his massive group of bows died like flies and were outflanked from all sides (also by knights). Its hard to manage even in the hands of pizza who has great micro skills and like 30 pikes to protect them.

[Smogon]

This is very true, I'm thinking about making axefighters instead of 20 bowmen but not sure yet. And yes mass bowmen is annoying to control in such a large group, even when splitting up its easy to flank them without enough melee support. 40 bowmen 40 swordmen, Hmm seems pretty hard since I need an early production on both leather and iron.

[Bence791]

Here some hard market abuse is, I attached a replay. It was a 70 pt game anyway, but I think you don't really care about the 70th minute :p So here you go, The Cracked Land, location 1, at 60 minutes (my wood production was kind of very late, I produced nearly the same amount in the next 10 minutes of the amount which can be seen, the output of my barracks were 51 axefighters + 40 bowmen, and so many left-in jackets, see below )



I think it could be many more though, I made mistakes in multiple places


EDIT:
Pic at 70 minutes, if you are interested

[Smogon]

Here some hard market abuse is, I attached a replay. It was a 70 pt game anyway, but I think you don't really care about the 70th minute :p So here you go, The Cracked Land, location 1, at 60 minutes (my wood production was kind of very late, I produced nearly the same amount in the next 10 minutes of the amount which can be seen, the output of my barracks were 51 axefighters + 40 bowmen, and so many left-in jackets, see below )



I think it could be many more though, I made mistakes in multiple places


EDIT:
Pic at 70 minutes, if you are interested

I assume you traded your starter food for corn? The leather is very good though, but you're lacking wooden weapons big time, I would do mass bowmen instead of the wooden shields since you need less armoury workshops aswell. And maybe ask one of your allies to give you melee support
I remember doing the same thing on location 7 but I spammed coalmines to trade for corn so I didn't need more then 1 farm =) I remember the outcome being 100 bowmen+ but not sure about the pt, was probably 65+ PT.

[Ben]

Silly abusive gaming. Not so feasible on maps where the starting food is more normal.

[Bence791]

I have written that I lacked weapons
And not all my starting food, only sausages xD Around 70. But this wouldn't work on any other maps. Next time my aim will be 200 jackets That would be like insane late game spam (only weapons needed, which can be spammed quite fast with 6 weaponmakers). Maybe I'll go lancers+bows against randoms, so that way I can get I think +50 soldiers. And having no axefighters won't mean such a big "disadvantage" in huge numbers I think (or hope? ).

Anyway my teammates, Ben (blue) and Gentor (orange) went for leather only as well, the first had 117, the latter 102 jackets in the 70 min pt


@Ben: Haha idd, but it was about specially for one loc tactics and the best of those. So I thought this is something folks may be interested in :p Next time we go for 120 in 60 mins!

[Smogon]

Leather abusers xD

Oo 200 leather? In how many minutes are you trying to do this?

[Bence791]

70 (because I won't take my time to test such like this alone, so rather with randoms, that requires 70 minutes, they aren't willing to play less :c Hopefully I will have 130-140 jackets in 60 minutes), it will be hard :p I'll try to have at least 100 leather soldiers at the same time (I mean along with the 200 jackets, and it will likely be lancers+bows ). It will be a much harder abuse of the market though, if this wasn't enough :p

And didn't write, it was at x1,5 speed as well.

[Smogon]

70 (because I won't take my time to test such like this alone, so rather with randoms, that requires 70 minutes, they aren't willing to play less :c Hopefully I will have 130-140 jackets in 60 minutes), it will be hard :p I'll try to have at least 100 leather soldiers at the same time (I mean along with the 200 jackets, and it will likely be lancers+bows ). It will be a much harder abuse of the market though, if this wasn't enough :p

And didn't write, it was at x1,5 speed as well.

I figured out about the x1,5 speed otherwise randoms don't want to play. Makes sence since 70 minutes long building isn't worth the 5 minute slaughtering for them . Maybe you can make a few extra coalmines to trade for corn, not sure if this is still a 1 on 1 trade though.

[Esthlos]

Do you think it is the nature of this trade to be abusable or is it more related to it being so early in the game?
I mean... would it be worth it to keep doing this trade even with the sausages you produced?
(Granted you can match that leather production with wood weapons, of course)

I'm asking because I was thinking... if it is always such a good trade, probably Lewin and Krom will want to nerf it.
If it is not, then maybe this could be avoided by making the marketplace more realistic... by making the trade rates time-dependant.

At first, let's say the first 5 minutes, you can't trade at all. Your town is nearly unknown and likely very small, no merchant would bother traveling there.
Then, you can trade but with very high rates; merchants begin to be interested in your town, and you want to keep them interested by letting them get profitable trades from you.
Then, after some other time (let's say, 60/70 minutes into the game), merchants visit your town regularly and prices become stable at the levels they are now.

What do you think about making trade profitability time-dependent?