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SEARCHING Replay of won SP missions ;-)

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Post 04 Aug 2013, 20:59

Vortamic is Possible to Beat

Hey guys,

I am obviously new to this site, but not new to Knights and Merchants. I've been playing it since 1999, I believe. I have never played with other people, but I consider myself an expert at beating the computer because I have beat the TPR and K&M missions in more than one way to finally make the game somewhat "boring" and "too simple".

Anyway, I downloaded the remake on 4/26/2013, and I just played Ben's Vortamic the past couple of days. First of all, I have to say that this was the most challenging scenario I had to play. It's radical really, especially the initial attacks..."it separates the boys from the men"! (No offense intended...when I first tried this scenario, I was in the same boat as other experts...it was HARD). In addition, the map is so beautiful, highly detailed, and creative that it can't compare with any of the original maps for K&M and TPR, at least.

Anyway,

Although it might be believed to be impossible to beat, it actually is possible with the current settings Ben left in. I have uploaded my saved game which proves this. Vortamic. I obviously didn't take out the city to the far north yet, but as you can see, it's unquestionable that I could if I wanted to because I've got a strong town and practically own the entire map. With the market available (which I don't particularly like in the game because it makes it too easy...I do confess I used it to make gold for this particular mission since sufficient gold ore isn't reachable...but I'm sure it's possible to not use the market at all even in this scenario).

I didn't record the game, as I have the habit of saving the game repeatedly as I play just in case something unexpected goes wrong or if I make the wrong call in battle (hey, it's single player so it doesn't matter, right?) .

Strategy: Surviving the Initial attacks (and taking out the east town)
Obviously if you're going to defeat a large army and you have a small one,
Assuming you have at least some bowman and/or crossbowman, the optimal location to fight is in one similar to the one Ben provided: only a small gap is opened between two mountains (or rivers, etc.) so that you can force the large army to await being killed.

The problem is, even just keeping all of your soldiers inside of this "circle" which Ben provided, as others have said, there are SO MANY KNIGHTS. What you need to do for this particular mission is have one of your laborers build the fence for a quarry (a 3x2 block) in that gap and have another laborer build a fence of a quarry above that one. You then move your soldiers right next to the single man openings on both sides of the fences to only allow one enemy soldier to "have a swing" in each of those gaps. IMPORTANT: you need to have your archers right behind these fences so that their arrows don't destroy them (if for some reason the fences still get destroyed, retry until they don't...it's possible for them to stay up).

In addition, have two laborers build two barracks fences to your left to execute the same strategy of allowing few soldiers (knights in this case) enter from the left, should they be so anxious to kill you that they are willing to go around the iron ore mountain to get you from the left: have a few knights guarding the gaps between the barracks' fences (split your knight group into two groups).

With about a dozen times of trying this strategy, you should not only be successful in surviving the initial attacks, but you should be able to manage to keep most if not all of your bowmen and crossbowmen, but you should have enough soldiers to go take out the village to east, again, having some of your labors go all the way over there and build fences for maybe a store house or something (if the trees there allow you to place those fences).

After you take out the east village, you should have almost all of your bowmen and crossbowmen, but probably not many infantry/cavalry (I think I just had 1 pikeman and one knight left).

Ben gives you some leather armor and weapons to start with, so, I personally chose to make 9 axe fighters (I had enough bowmen and crossbowmen already). The militia and lance carriers die so easily against iron-armored unites in comparison to axe fighters that I thought it was worth it instead of creating 9 militia and 9 lance carriers. Just my opinion.

Strategy: Surviving the continual annoying attacks from the town immediately to the north
Starting out with such a hardship, you really don't have that much time to build a strong town to have a good food supply (not to mention produce strong soldiers) before you get attacks from the town immediately to the north.

All you need to do is have your laborer's build fences for different buildings around the trees and coal deposits to the north of your town and they will come and attack every minute or so: they take out 1-3 fences in each "attack". Train extra laborers to always have at least 5 fences up before they make another attack, otherwise they will attack a building which is actually built! You should train the extra laborers because you want to build a town at the same time that you're constantly...and I mean constantly...having to rebuild fences of buildings.

For those who have one all 20 missions of K&M or all 14 missions of TPR, the rest is very self explanatory.
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dicsoupcan

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Post 04 Aug 2013, 21:02

Re: SEARCHING Replay of won SP missions ;-)

oh yeah vortamic has been proven not being impossible, but no one beat to the capitalyet though.
You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life. ~ Winston Churchill
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The Dark Lord

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Post 04 Aug 2013, 21:03

Re: SEARCHING Replay of won SP missions ;-)

Challenge accepted.
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cmowla

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Post 04 Aug 2013, 21:19

Re: SEARCHING Replay of won SP missions ;-)

The above post was my first, but for some reason it posted as "guest", but my username is cmowla.

Okay, since it's been proven, I haven't lost my faith in my peers just yet! :lol:

Anyway,
Challenge accepted.
I agree (in fact, I've heard a lot about you...were you to the first one to prove Vortamic was possible to beat?).

I'll try to beat this myself. Beating Vortamic was not what I would call a miracle, as I have had a lot of practice getting myself out of binds I got myself into (by not doing preemptive attacks with the army given to me) when I first started playing that I learned all of those strategies I listed (I didn't mention anything about starving the enemy...but I guess that's obvious to experts already).
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cmowla

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Post 05 Aug 2013, 00:21

Re: SEARCHING Replay of won SP missions ;-)

I just beat "To the Capital"
To the Capital

It was stressful, but with saving constantly and trying new battle positions, etc., it's doable.
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Bence791

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Post 05 Aug 2013, 07:55

Re: SEARCHING Replay of won SP missions ;-)

Nice, but please move on to the next century, we are playing r5503 ;) (changing pretty much in Vortamic and To The Capital, since shielded units get +1 defence against arrows...)

P.S.: It was Lewin and me who did Vortamic in the current release, without digging any sorts of barricade.
The Kamper is always taking my colour!

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cmowla

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Post 05 Aug 2013, 08:17

Re: SEARCHING Replay of won SP missions ;-)

Nice, but please move on to the next century, we are playing r5503 ;) (changing pretty much in Vortamic and To The Capital, since shielded units get +1 defence against arrows...)
I wasn't sure you were saying that my win was legitimate or it wasn't. I didn't know r4179 is that out of date...would you feel better if I win them with r5503? I had extra men to spare in both cases.
P.S.: It was Lewin and me who did Vortamic in the current release, without digging any sorts of barricade.
Yeah, today I looked on YouTube, and a guy won it without doing that...but he banked on the knights returning back to the Arctic Circle...I killed 75 of the 100 knights, and I would have been able to kill the rest right then if they wouldn't have run away. If you managed to not use fences and you didn't bank on the knights fleeing away, do you have the replay?

I really didn't spend that much time retrying these two single player maps...I don't know how much time others have spent on them, but if you're challenging me to win "To the Capital", at least, with r5503, I can (I only spent 3 hours on it from never seeing it before to winning). Just say the word.
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The Dark Lord

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Post 05 Aug 2013, 08:22

Re: SEARCHING Replay of won SP missions ;-)

Nice, but please move on to the next century, we are playing r5503 ;) (changing pretty much in Vortamic and To The Capital, since shielded units get +1 defence against arrows...)

P.S.: It was Lewin and me who did Vortamic in the current release, without digging any sorts of barricade.
Lol, wasn't it just Lewin? And Pawel maybe? But you? Naaaah. :P ;)
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Bence791

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Post 05 Aug 2013, 08:28

Re: SEARCHING Replay of won SP missions ;-)

Yeah, today I looked on YouTube, and a guy won it without doing that...but he banked on the knights returning back to the Arctic Circle...I killed 75 of the 100 knights, and I would have been able to kill the rest right them if they wouldn't have run away. If you managed to not use fences and you didn't bank on the knights fleeing away, do you have the replay?
I do. It is attached. I remember the knights fleeing usually in older releases, but now they just come as an endless row which you have to stop (so did those leather soldiers and warriors) :D

I wasn't sure you were saying that my win was legitimate or it wasn't. I didn't know r4179 is that out of date...would you feel better if I win them with r5503? I had extra men to spare in both cases.
There was another guy who did it in earlier releases. Luki. But since r4179, there were many things changed, and the most important is that shielded units (in To The Capital, "only" swordfighters and knights) got +1 defence against arrows, which means that shielded leather units have 3, shielded iron units have 4 defence points against arrows. And that makes a big difference. I didn't mean it isn't legit or something, just that it is much more difficult in the current release.

P.S.: You might didn't know because you only play SP. If you open the Multiplayer menu, you can see if it is up to date or not ;)


@TDL: I even uploaded my performance on TS, you noob :P
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cmowla

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Post 05 Aug 2013, 08:48

Re: SEARCHING Replay of won SP missions ;-)

But since r4179, there were many things changed, and the most important is that shielded units (in To The Capital, "only" swordfighters and knights) got +1 defence against arrows, which means that shielded leather units have 3, shielded iron units have 4 defence points against arrows. And that makes a big difference. I didn't mean it isn't legit or something, just that it is much more difficult in the current release.
Okay. Downloading the update now. I'll attempt to win "To the Capital" tomorrow. No one has beat it yet in r5503 yet, right? And you said that you already beat Vortamic in r5503, correct?
@TDL: I even uploaded my performance on TS, you noob :P
Yeah, I am new to this forum, so I don't know how it works quite yet...and I don't plan on learning the history behind everything and where everything is, etc., in one day, many apologies.
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Bence791

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Post 05 Aug 2013, 08:51

Re: SEARCHING Replay of won SP missions ;-)

cmowla, the "@TDL: etc..." part was to The Dark Lord :)

Anyway yeah, the rest is correct.
The Kamper is always taking my colour!

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The Dark Lord

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Post 05 Aug 2013, 09:00

Re: SEARCHING Replay of won SP missions ;-)

Here you go. Wasn't that hard after all, I'm sure I could do a lot better now I know how to do it. :P I even made quite a few mistakes.
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cmowla

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Post 05 Aug 2013, 09:23

Re: SEARCHING Replay of won SP missions ;-)

Interesting. When I played To the Capital in r4179, our ally got creamed, even with my help killing the enemy's rogues from behind. This time, they managed to keep 12 barbarians with no help? Hmmm. I'm not sure that r5503 is more difficult than r4179. In fact, it appears to have more favor on the human player. Just by watching TDL's replay and Bence791's replay, it seems like the arrows are more powerful (similar to the original game) and your own arrows don't kill your own soldiers as easily as they did for me in r4179.

@TDL, I don't know how you managed to kill the army next to you at the start and kill the remaining armies and have so few casualties. I just let that first army starve to death. :)

I'm still going to play this single player tomorrow to see if it is indeed easier than when I just beat it in r4179. To be sure, I'm going to use the same strategy I did and see how I end up at the end and how difficult/easy it was for me to win.

EDIT:
I just played the first minute of "To the Capital" on my PC (using r5503), and OMG. What!? The ally gets creamed, but when TDL played it, they kept 8 rogues and 12 barbarians? It looks like the difficulty/outcome isn't dependent on the version more than it might be on what type of CPU one has? Seriously. This was the typical outcome in casualties for me and my allies when compared to the enemy. That's why I didn't dare even fight the first army because I knew I probably wouldn't have enough soldiers to win the game. I'm confused...regardless, I'll still try to win this again with r5503 this time.

EDIT2:
Congratulations Bence791 on your "To the Captial" win. It looks like your ally suffered the same fate that mine did. I wonder, why did your replay played all the way to the end, while mine (for r4971) and TDL's didn't?
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Last edited by cmowla on 05 Aug 2013, 10:13, edited 1 time in total.
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Bence791

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Post 05 Aug 2013, 09:57

Re: SEARCHING Replay of won SP missions ;-)

I have won as well. Stat screen:
Image

Replay is attached :p
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Bence791

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Post 05 Aug 2013, 10:29

Re: SEARCHING Replay of won SP missions ;-)

Thanks.

I dont really know, do you mean it being buggy? TDL's is, for some reason. It says the replay failed some consistency check. And you need to click Yes or No. And it is continuous :c
The Kamper is always taking my colour!


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