FUN WITH FLAGS - game mode - description

[Siegfried]

This topic is intended to give a description for a game mode that I am working on. Please give some feedback or ideas.

The game mode is meant to be an economy mode and has the name FUN WITH FLAGS. At the current state, it is implemented as a dynamic script and will be delivered with one single map. The map shown here is named "FLORESCENCE" and is almost identical to "The Valley of Dangers 2", originally made by the famous Shadaoe.

Description:

What is the difference to regular building+fighting mode?
In Florescence, you won't be able to destroy your enemies, because his base is protected so your troops can't enter it. Therefore the 'traditional' build order 'city-army-fight-demolish base-end' will not work. When your troops enter the enemy base, they will be killed immediately.

So how do you win?
In order to win, you have to collect certain achievements which are called Flags.
As soon as you own the majority of flags, a countdown will be started.
If you don't lose your flags until the end of the countdown, you win the match. The countdown length is 3 minutes atm.

The flags are not physical things on the map, but really are achievements like for example 'have the most timber'. As long as you have more timber than your opponents, you will own this flag. If one opponents produces more timbe than you have, you lose the flag and the opponent gets it. The amount of timber is called 'flag score', because it's the score that decides who owns this flag.

At the current state of development, there are 15 flags planned. The amount of flags you need to win depends on the number of players. If there are only 2 players, you need 10 flags, whereas with 8 players you will only need to hold 5 flags in order to win.

There will be 4 classes of flags which behave differently:

Future Flags (5 total)
These flags are locked at the beginning of the game and will be unlocked after a certain amount of time, for example 20 minutes. As soon as the match time reaches the 20 minutes, this flag will be given to the person with the highest flag score. Everybody can fight for these flags, so if your opponent out-scores you, you will lose the flag and he will win it.

Fact Flags (4 total)
They behave like the future flag, except that they are not unlocked at a specific time, but only as soons as the first person reaches a specific flag score. So if the limit is 200 for the timber flag, it will be given to the player who has 200 timber. We will still hold it if he falls below the 200 timber, but we will lose it as soon as another player has more timber than he has atm.

First Flags (4 total)
They behave like fact flags, which means they are unlocked as soon as one player reaches a certain limit. But you cannot fight for these flags and you cannot lose it. So the first player gets this flag and owns it for the rest of the match, even if he again falls below the limit or other players outrun him.

Final Flags (2 total)
These are personal flags, so you don't fight with the others for these flags, but you fight with the limit. If you reach the limit, you will own this flag. If you again fall below the limit, you will lose it. This flag can exist more than once, so all 8 players can own this flags at the same time. You can't steal this flag from others.


Atm there is no possibility to team up, each player fights for his own. A team-mode is planned, but still difficult to do with the recent version of dynamic scripts. The team mode is thought in a way that everyone plays like the FFA mode, but only the winning condition is calculated for teams, not for single persons. So if Team1 holds in total the majority of flags, the countdown will be started.

So here is a list of flags that are implemented right now. The flags shall be done in a way to counter others, so it's not so easy to collect all flags. You should have to decide which way you go, for example for bread or sausage as main feeding resource. Therefore if there is a flag that rewards sausages, there will be another flag that punishes sausages and rewards bread. You have to make choices where to go. Atm there are 60% pure economical flags. The other 40% need military (but only 2 really need fighting).

1. Wooden Leg (fact flag, limit: 50)
   The number of wooden weapons minus the number of iron weapons produced. Everybody tries to recruit iron troops, so here is an appeal to not do so.
2. Restaurant (fact flag, limit: 360)
   It's basically the number of food, weighted for nutrition. Each wine gives 3, each bread 5 and each sausage gives 7 flag points. There is no fish on this map. I plan to add a multiplier which takes into account the number of inns, maybe give 10 extra % per inn or so.
3. Forechecking (fact flag, limit: 5)
   It's the number of demolished (already fully built, not only planned) enemy buildings.
4. Fighter (fact flag, limit: 60)
   Each killed enemy unit gives a certain flag score, similar to map "Coastal Encounter Scored". So if you kill a militia, you will get 1 point. If you kill a knight, you will earn 7 points.
5. Comfort (future flag, time: 15min)
   The number of produced tree chunks plus coal plus straw. Either way you need the central valley to win, but why not give some additional points for that. Coal is more or less only in the central valley, the other things need space, which you don't have in your starting location.
6. Luxury (future flag, time: 30min)
   Number of gold plus wine plus sausage.
7. Vegetarian (future flag, time: 45min)
   The number of bread plus the number of wine minus the number of sausage.
8. Sightseeing (future flag, time: 60min)
   The number of barracks plus schools plus stables plus towers plus markets plus gold and iron mines minus (minus!) coal mines. Marketplace is not available from the beginning and will be unlocked with this flags. However, weapon trades are forbidden.
9. Commander (fact flag, time: 75min)
   It's number of living soldiers plus the number of killed soldiers minus the number of lost soldiers. Fights are possible in the central valley of the map, you can move your troops there.
10. City (first flag, score 25)
    The number of finished buildings divided by a spreading factor. If you have the same number of buildings of each type, the spreading factor will be 1, so the number of buildings will be one. On the other extreme, if you have a city consisting of say 1000 towers and nothing else, the spreading factor will also be 1000, so the overall score will be 1 (despite the 1000 buildings). It's meant to punish mass-coal-mining and especially tower-spamming.
11. Iron fetish (first flag, score 150)
    It's the number of iron plus the number of leather (the actual resources, not the armors) produced.
12. Variety (first flag, score 38)
    You need to have 1 building of each type and 1 living unit of each type to get this flag = 38 units+buildings in total. (marketplace does not count)
13. Strategist (first flag, score 5)
    You need to equip 5 soldiers of each type to get this flag.
14. Population (final flag, limit 160)
    You have this flag, as long as you have 160 citizens. Recruits are citizens, military troops are not. So if you levy an army, it's possible to lose this flag. Also each starved civilian gives you a permanent malus on this score.
15. Knighthood (final flag, limit 20)
    You'll own this flag as long as you have 20 living knights.

And that's how it looks like in the game right now (until a proper GUI can be made):

[krisdw]

Wow, why has no one commented on this before? This looks awesome! Incredible to think of all the new options that will become available in KAM thanks to these dynamic scripts. Who would have believed this 5 years ago? Great work!

[Krom]

Looks and sounds awesome, now we just need to find a way to let the player hide the stats when he does not needs them on screen )

[Siegfried]

The GUI indeed is the biggest problem in the whole story. I was thinking in a direction that the overall score is visible all the time and the flag details slide in when the mouse hits the score detaisl. But that would need new dynamic script functions.

[Lewin]

I really like this idea. I'd like to make it possible to hide/show the stats (or some other solution) before we do the next release so this mission can be played

The rules are fairly long (too long to fit into the description box in the lobby) so people will have to take the time to read it and think about their strategies. But if the rules were simpler, it wouldn't be fun to play so I'm not criticising you.

[Ben]

I can agree that the rules are quite long. I'm having a serious case of "TLDNR"

Btw, do you plan on submitting this for the competition?

[Siegfried]

Originally I had planned to submit this for the competition. I applied with this idea.
But then I realized that it is easier to implement and therefore it could be finished earlier. I hoped that Krom&Lewin consider this for the next official release, imho this would be a nice showcase for the possibilities of dynamic scripts. And I read Lewin's reply in that way.

I asked you to remove me from the list. If you still think this might be a nice addition to the contest, then I'll still submit. I don't care for winning the competition, so you can remove points for me breaking almost every single rule (like not making an own map, publishing it before the deadline ...). The contest gave me the reason to really work on this, so it has already been important.

Concerning the length of the rules: it is lenghty. But it does not feel complicated as soon as you've understood the pricinple. Those things called 'flags' are just a king of the hill with one type of wares. And you win in the manner of king of the hill with flags. So summed up, it's only a two-level king of the hill gametype.

The rules became that long because I wanted to add some more details - like the different kind of flags. And I haven't even mentioned every detail. For example you receive gold chests as bonus reward as long as you're the leader within the final 3 minutes countdown.

[Shadaoe]

Hey Siegfried, I really like what you did here ! This is going to be really fun to play ! I like the idea of different types of flags, and the need to fight in the valley.
The variety of the goals is really interesting and I can't wait to play on it !
It is wonderful to see how many things can be achieved with the dynamic scripts and I alays hoped to see such maps.
Good work Siegfried !

[sado1]

Well, I vote for you not competing, this thing seems so huge that I'll never win against you, with my quite simple to implement (for anyone who coded anything in their life), yet (I think) innovative and playable idea xD Your points will still get lower, because you're making only a script (and using a ready map), so my hopes won't vanish that quickly But all jokes aside, I don't see any reason to not submit it into the contest. After all, its point was to make dynamic scripting more popular, and this idea seems like a really nice (and probably long, which is also important) example.

And, next time, you can just write in 1st post that your idea is just KotH+achievements+economical goals. I used 4 words to sum up your wall of text. Pretty impressive, isn't it?

[Ben]

Well it will indeed be a shame if you don't submit this, because it looks fantastic. Asking people to not publish a map was to help keep suspense up for the community and was not exactly a "rule." Shadaoe made VoD, right? Maybe you and him could be on a team together?
If you decide to enter this mission, please let me know. I don't want to play it until the judging starts if that's your choice.

----

I read the rules, but I still don't quite understand why one would even bother making troops. It seems pointless?

[Siegfried]

I guess I will submit it then.

Making troops does directly add to three flags (Commander, Knightshood and Strategist) and is indirectly neccessary for two further flags (Forechecking and Fighter), so it's not entirely pointless. In addition, you need to expand into the valley for coal. That's where the opponents most likely will fight you, so you need to fight back.

Of course you still can put pt to 120min and play a solely economic game; that's meant to be possible. But you have less flags available and still need the same amount of winning flags, so that game will be harder to win.

[Shadaoe]

We played a game on the map today, with Siegfried, Lewin and Krom, and I must say it was really, really fun !
It is a really well-thought game mode in which you always find some goals and you're happy to reach them even if you lose in the end.
The variety of objectives is really great, and different tactics work to obtain the required number of flags.
We were 4 players so the number of flags needed to win was 7.
I eventually ended up having 7 flags but you have to keep it for 3 minutes to win, and Siegfried destroyed my army and base so I went down to 0 flags (ouch). After that there was a battle between Lewin and Siegfried who both had 7 flags, which stopped the countdown while Krom grabbed several flags during that time. It ended up with Siegfried winning as I managed to get a flag back from Lewin (sorry :p) , which made of Siegfried the only one to have 7 flags and he managed to keep it for 3 minutes.
In the end : it was so fun !
What I really enjoy :
- the stress that it brings when you have 7 flags and need to keep it
- the "coalitions" and backstabbing when it comes to making a player with 7 flags fall and lose many things :p
- the fact that you can climb back to the top even after losing things. For example, Krom had his economy in the valley destroyed in the early game, which left him with with coal and therefore gold problems. The fact that you can't get in the inner base of the players is the key point here. He managed to rebuild is economy inside and get 3 flags in the end, which is really good since no one is left behind. There is always a competition between players AND goals for everyone, which makes it a pleasure to play.
-everything else

What I dislike :
-nothing (except maybe that playing in x2 made the countdown a bit short :p)

A great, great gamemode, with a really great script and so much gun to play on ! Masterpiece. (note that I don't take the map terrain into account for this opinion, the gamemode is just wonderful)

[Lewin]

EDIT: Shadaoe beat me too it!

We played a really fun game on this map, here's the replay:
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/930 ... Replay.zip



It's a really interesting game mode, and requires very different tactics than normal games. I wouldn't call it an "economy mode" because military/fighting is still a big aspect of it, but it's certainly more about the economy than your army size. It's nice to really focus on your economy and experiment with different ideas. Stealing flags from each other is great fun, at one point in the game I had to demolish some working coal mines so I could take a flag and stop Siegfried from winning! It's also interesting to see how many different tactics are possible, and how lots of the flags go against each other and make it harder to get the others (because they require focusing on different things), so you have to be careful and think about your objectives and which flags you might be able to hold.

It's the most fun I've had in KaM for a while, I'd highly recommend it

Some more suggestions:
- Mark the "instant death" line outside each player area with a row of small rocks or some other object which doesn't block movement/building, so it's clear how far you can walk
- The text "has" isn't correct English really. It's not really necessary, you could just have something like "Strategist [0/5]: Lewin". Otherwise you could put something like "owned by" or "owner" instead of "has"
- It's confusing that future flags have something like [403/20min]. That makes it look like "403 out of 20 minutes (or it could be interpreted as minimum). I'd format it like this: "Luxury [261] (40 mins): Lewin" so the minutes and amount you own don't get confused with each other.
- Would it be possible to reduce the vertical space used by the overlay a little? At the moment it doesn't fit even on 768 vertical pixels when it shows the countdown too. It would be nice if it at least works on 768 until we come up with a better solution for showing lots of information to the player.
- Do you have ownership/permission to use all the sounds? (that's required to have it included in the Remake)
- The section showing someone winning and the countdown doesn't use their players color, I think it would be better if it did (you can see that in the screenshot above, your name is white)
- As we found in-game, the counter goes negative and messes up the colour code
- At exactly 1:30 countdown, the timer shows the wrong thing for the color code: http://i.imgur.com/SMNfEFI.png
- I think the way final flags are shown is a bit confusing. I think it would be better if it listed all players who own that flag (like a comma separated list of colored player names), so it's consistent with the other flag displays. It's also less confusing when you see that Siegfried has 7 flags but can only see 6 of them. Because there are only 2 final flags, I don't think it's really a secret that needs hiding. It doesn't really matter if people see whether you have population or knight parade, they can probably guess most of the time anyway.

Would it be ready to include in the Remake by late next weekend (Sunday or Monday)? We'd love to include it!

EDIT: I also posted about this on our Facebook page:
https://www.facebook.com/KaMRemake
Looks like lots of people are interested in your map

[Krom]

I have played in that game and my feedback : It was awesome! One of the greatest MP games (out of few) I had in Remake

Things I liked:
- despite being bad player I could obtain 3 flags and each one was like a small victory )
- alliances change during mid-game to prevent certain players from winning, e.g. when we saw Siegfried had 7 flags we all fought against him, trying to steal the victory
- diversity and fun of goals, e.g. Lewin got the vegetarian flag and I got the wooden leg
- even loosing I had great fun playing the game because I wasnt crushed, I had all chances to fight back for the leadership
- map is well suited, but other layouts might be just as good

Things that could be improved:
- simplify the numbers in [ ]. and show the player how is he compared to the leader
- First section needs only players number and the current leaders number next to his name, like so: Commander [18]: Lewin (32)
- second section should display timeout till flag becomes available (Wooden leg [5min], Wooden leg [4min], etc.) and once the time has come: Wooden leg (score): Krom (score)
- Third section dont need numbers at all, or maybe show the percentage of who is closest to it before its assigned
- 4th section can list players names like Lewin says.
- like Lewin says - small rocks or other visual cue to let player know where he can walk and where cant
- I kept on referring to FAQ on flags meanings, but I guess thats unavoidable )

[pawel95]

Sorry maybe I´m just blind, but how to download and test this nice script masterpiece ?