Official KaM Remake Bugs topic

[GreatWhiteBear]

@Encaitar
Is it that bakers had stalls "all" over the city for distribution? While their shop and actual bakery was at their guild's quarters?

@Krom
It would take more time, IF you have the same amount of serfs.

[=NL= Gila]

Take a look at this:

Let's say that Pigfarm can handle 1corn per minute and you have farms that overall produce 1.2 corn per minute at average.
Then closest pigfarm will be stocked fully and distant pigfarm will get only 1 of 5 corn.
In the game it will look like farm #1 is overstocked and the other one is understocked.
Now think about it at different angle - both pigfarms are working and consuming all the corn produced. If you force 50/50 split then overall production will be penalized by serfs having to carry half of the corn farther to 2nd pigfarm instead of 20%. Pigs production will be the same "number of corn = number of pigs", but due to route length it will take a little more time.

What is important here, is that you need to balance corn between different consumers! (Mill, pigfarm, stables) and that is done through menu
In the end - build more farms!

In other words, find the balance to ensure the deliveries to your mills, pigfarms and horsefarms.

Mine is like 2 farmers to stock one producer (mill or pigfarm). So 2 mills means 4 farms, thats how I do it.

Anyway, its logical that the nearest building gets first to receive its products, thats how the game works with and thats how I learned to make farms next to the mill and swinefarm and horsefarm.
Like this:

farm - mill - farm - swinefarm - farm - horsefarm - farm

Why is that logical? I always make the same houses at each other: farms, woodcutters, quarry, etc. I think that's much more convenient, as the inhabants of these houses can use the same resources (field -> farms, trees -> woodcutters, stone -> Stonemason, etc.). Besides, even in the Middle Ages this kind of thinking was being used. In big cities the streets were devided in guilds. Every member of such a guild would live in the same street (or streets if the guild covered several streets).

ITS LOGICAL OF THE NEAREST BUILDING RECEIVING AT FIRST. The makers of KaM made it this way, wasn't my idea... And maybe its your strategy to separate the farmers from the guilds, but that was in realism, this is a game, so you have to think a little bit smarter, dont you think?

This is my strategy about how I think is good for me.

[pawel95]

Take a look at this:

Let's say that Pigfarm can handle 1corn per minute and you have farms that overall produce 1.2 corn per minute at average.
Then closest pigfarm will be stocked fully and distant pigfarm will get only 1 of 5 corn.
In the game it will look like farm #1 is overstocked and the other one is understocked.
Now think about it at different angle - both pigfarms are working and consuming all the corn produced. If you force 50/50 split then overall production will be penalized by serfs having to carry half of the corn farther to 2nd pigfarm instead of 20%. Pigs production will be the same "number of corn = number of pigs", but due to route length it will take a little more time.

What is important here, is that you need to balance corn between different consumers! (Mill, pigfarm, stables) and that is done through menu
In the end - build more farms!

Yeah and that i wanted to say Lool

[Lewin]

Take a look at this:

Let's say that Pigfarm can handle 1corn per minute and you have farms that overall produce 1.2 corn per minute at average.
Then closest pigfarm will be stocked fully and distant pigfarm will get only 1 of 5 corn.
In the game it will look like farm #1 is overstocked and the other one is understocked.
Now think about it at different angle - both pigfarms are working and consuming all the corn produced. If you force 50/50 split then overall production will be penalized by serfs having to carry half of the corn farther to 2nd pigfarm instead of 20%. Pigs production will be the same "number of corn = number of pigs", but due to route length it will take a little more time.

What is important here, is that you need to balance corn between different consumers! (Mill, pigfarm, stables) and that is done through menu
In the end - build more farms!

That works fine for corn to swinefarms, but what about iron to the weapon/armour smithy? Even when you build them next to each other, one is usually closer to the iron smelter so you end up with 50 crossbows and 10 armour, as GWB said. Building more mines often isn't an option because iron can be limited and a long way away. The distribution menu can help a bit, but then you have to set the weapon smithy to 1 and the armour smith to 5, just to get 50% of the iron taken to each. (and often this doesn't work, because the weapons guy uses his 1 iron by the time the next piece is ready to be delivered, so he gets it again) It's not like this in KaM (I don't remember ever having this problem) and it seems pretty silly to me if you need to set the distribution like that just to get an equal distribution, especially when the buildings are right next to each other.
Of course we shouldn't make the distributions even, they should prefer closer buildings. But if the buildings are of different types, this can make it very hard to make sure all your buildings get a fair number of resources.

[Krom]

@Lewin: That is why we penalize deliveries where To house has more wares. For each additional ware, the delivery gets penalty of 20 tiles. But yes, if you have one Workshop next to the Smelter and other 100tiles away - it won't get any iron.

//Basic Bid is length of route
Bid:=Bid + 20 * fDemand[iD].Loc_House.CheckResIn(fDemand[iD].Resource);

P.S. In the provided screenshot, comparing 2 pigfarms, when both are empty Serfs will prefer to deliver Corn to closest one. When closest one has corn - the corn will be delivered to 2nd. Once again - when corn production is so few it makes little sense to fill both pigfarms with corn.

[Siegfried]

@Lewin: That is why we penalize deliveries where To house has more wares. For each additional ware, the delivery gets penalty of 20 tiles. But yes, if you have one Workshop next to the Smelter and other 100tiles away - it won't get any iron.

Are you sure this works? Because then the screenshot in the first post would not be possible - one house with 4 corn and the second house 5 tiles away with 0 corn.

[Krom]

@Siegfried: Yes, just have tested it in Remake with a special map with 1 store and 2 pigfarms like on the screenshot. First farm will get more corn only when all 5 serf deliver for the first time, as the pigfarm has no corn in input and all deliveries will account on that, but soon after the distribution evens out.

I encourage you to make a simple test maps like that and check such flaws in "lab conditions".

[Siegfried]

OK, I think now I've understood how it works. Thanks.

I had asked, because I've reported a similar problem to Lewin some days ago.

[GreatWhiteBear]

I am testing it right now.
Every bakery ends up with the same amount of flour.
10farms, 5mills, 3bakery's, 21tiles from bakery door to bakery door, all had 4 or 5flour.
4farms, 1mill, 3bakery's, 21tiles from bakery door to bakery door, closest had 1-3flour, 2nd had 0-2flour, furthest had 0-1flour.

[batoonike]

So I had 2 iron smelters and 2 iron mines. 1 of the smelters was 1 walking tile further from both mines than the other. The closer one constantly had 2 iron ores and 3rd one being proccessed. The further one didn't work for 98% of time. And it LOOKED extremely broken and I was going to come and moan about it. But when you think about it, no iron ore excess ever existed really. If the ore proccessing was ineffective, there would have been excess of iron ore. There wasn't, thus it was perfectly effective, even though 1 dude wasn't really working at all

So I built the further smelter 1 walking tile closer, both had equal distance now. And they had equal share of ore, which looked much better, but isn't really significantly more effective. The little issue is, the perfect number of iron smelters is something like "1.05" for 2 iron mines. I think its fairly common to have exactly 2 iron mines, not 1 or 3. And the second smelter is being unemployed.

[jakos2]

I found the same problem and the only thing that helped me a little that there is an option (dont know how its called) which is made to manage ur workers to prioritise some buildings. So when u have 2 swine and u set the number to 1, when u have one corn in the nearer swine then they will take it to the other. But when u set it to 2 or more they will almost always take the corn to the other. So its not a solution but it helps u to manage ur town. With this process you must have more carrier peasant (dont know how it called cause i play in hungarian) cause they will only deliver the corn if the farm is out of it (if you set to 1).

If i have i mill and a swine too, and i want them to deliver more corn to the swine then i set mill to one and swine to 2. With this option u must have a lot of corn cause the same problem will happen if u dont have enough. Its a good solution to iron too, but its not the best, cause coal is away most of the times so it will be delivered really slow. As for me i always set it to 2 but it doesnt help a lot.

[=NL= Gila]

Everytime I play, its always a challenge to manage the corn, coal, wood and iron to your preffered buildings. I think it lays in the combination of the settings you can change and the distance between lets say the mill and farms. So there is not one way to manage it, everytime its different. I think thats the way the original KaM was meant to be played, constantly keeping an eye on your economy statistics and battlefields.

So keep finding the balance, thats what I would say

[Lewin]

@Krom: I committed a test map "Delivery balance". Place orders for weapons and armour then let it run. When they used all 1000 coal I had: 402 swords, but only 96 armour. The weapon/armour smithies are right next to each other, so you cannot complain that they are too far away. The problem is that iron is only produced at a rate to supply 1 or maybe 1.5 building(s), and that guy uses the iron as soon as the serfs give it to him, so most of the time he gets it all.
Now you could tell me to build another iron mine and iron smelter, but that's no practical in a lot of situations. For example, there might only be one place for iron on the map, you might need to focus your labourers on something else, you might need to share the mines with your allies, etc. etc. Maybe I just want a small number of iron weapons to be made (from one mine) to support my leather/wooden troops. There are many reasons why you might only have one iron mine, and I always find it's hard to get an even mix of weapons/armour.
I do not think the player should have to manage this himself, you should be able to order 999 crossbows and 999 armour and expect to get 50% of each. (in my opinion) The only other option that really works is to order 10 at a time from each building, then order another 10 when all the orders have been completed. But this is an excessive amount of management when I'm probably busy fighting.
I think this shows there is a problem, I'm just not sure how we can fix it...

I tested this map in KaM TPR, and similarly almost all of the iron went to the weapon smithy, no armour was made at all. (64 swords; 4 armour) So the Remake is already as good as (or slightly better than) KaM. Maybe it doesn't need fixing in that case... (I thought this was not a problem in TPR)

[batoonike]

You could keep track of how much of each resource has been taken to each building type by serves. Then use this info when serves are making the distribution decisions. They could also consider the number of buildings you have and distribution of goods settings.

Lets say you have 2 armor smiths and 1 weapon smith and you've set equal distribution of iron. If you have placed the buildings so that only weapon smith gets iron, the serves will notice it, and ignore the walking distance in favor of serving all building types.

[Garnu_Thorn]

In a multiplayer game, if peace time is set, after peace time is over the music stops, and only starts up again after the game is over. I do have my own custom music on top of the existing that plays well(I convert each one to mp2), but still, it shouldn't matter. Even deselecting and reselecting the music option does nothing after peace time, swapping tracks, about the only thing I didn't attempt to get it going again was the shuffle option, which was off. I'll try it again later, or if someone else has this problem, that would fore go my need to retest it.